spanter Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Hi my crankshaft on the WC54 has got a very ovalled #1 journal after an incorrect bearing shell was fitted at some point in the last 60+ years, does anyone know the original size for the journals so I can see if I can get it machined or if it's beyond help. Alternatively has anyone got a good crankshaft available? The #1 bearing shell was quite a lot broader than the others with a pronounced lip, I guess this was incorrect as the manuals don't talk about any differences in the set? Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 li. Rlea~trre Camshaft Journals and L~etermint~ Bearing Wear. If the camshaft bearing clearance, as determined by check made in paragraph 39 i, exceeds 0.002 inch, measure each camshaft bearing journal with micrometer (41-C-307) and replace the camshaft if the journals are worn 0.002 inch or more below the standard journal sizes which are as follows: No. 1 (front bearing journal). . . . . . . . . . . , , . . . . . . . . , .1.9980-in. No. 2 (intermediate) . . , , . . . . . . . . . . . . , . , . . . . . . . . . . + 1.9665in. No. 3 (intermediate) . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.9350-in. No, 4 (rear bearing journal). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.2475-m. The camshaft bearing wear will be the amount of the measured clearance (par. 39 i), minus the standard clearance of 0.002 inch and the camshaft journal wear. If the bearing wear exceeds 0.002 inch, replace the bearings. Any use to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 That's the CAMSHAFT Tony, not the crankshaft, but good try :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 That's the CAMSHAFT Tony, not the crankshaft, but good try :cool2: Opticians appointment booked. :blush: My excuse been changing tyres on the WC51 today so arms are about 2 foot longer. I'll have anotyher look in the manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 bearings. To check connecting rod bearing clearance, oil the crankshaft journal and place a piece of 0.003-inch brass shim stock r/4 inch wide and one inch long lengthwise between the bearing and journal (fig. 29). Install the bearing cap and tighten the cap bolt nuts to 45 to 50 footpounds with torque wrench (41-W-3630). If the shim does not almost lock the crankshaft when it is moved, the bearing clearance exceeds the maximum allowable of 0.0025 inch, and new standard or undersize bearings will be required. Connecting rod bearings are available in undersizes of 0.002, 0.010, 0.012, 0.020 and 0.030 inch. c. Install Connecting Rod Bearings. Clean the bores of t Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Tis educational though. I never realised there were four different bearing sizes, in decreasing diameters, but when you consider it is inserted from one end it makes sense. I wonder how many people have run aground fitting them in the wrong order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Manual is TM 9- 1808A I got mine on Militay Media CD No 1 077421-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Thanks for the replies, I've got the TMs - I found them online and have nice A4 sized books to work from, I guess a series of expensive phone calls is coming up tomorrow then to see availability of parts as I think I'll be looking at loosing 0.040" at least to get close to a circular radius on the journal. :cry: It's a shame as the rest of the journals are fine and the bores are perfect. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 We need someone to post the standard journal diameter, for a start. If all of them were 060 under before one went west then you have your answer. When you say it is number 1, do you mean number 1 next to the firewall or number 1 next to the water pump? If it is number 1 next to the firewall you should remove, clean, possibly replace the water distribution tube too. If you have to pull the crank get the journal welded up and cut back down, rather than binning it. Quality material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 #1 Water pump end, but I think we'll pull the water tube as well while the engine is out, really wish this had reared it's head at the end of the season not the start. It looks impossible to pull the crank in the truck so the engine will have to come out? Who can weld metal back onto the crank? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) Any of the engine rebuilders can get it done for you then machined back. It is actually plasma-sprayed and then cut back, typically ( as here ) to save an otherwise good crank with one knackered journal. http://www.metallisation.com/applications/reclamationofcrankshaftsbyplasmaspray.html See if you can get a new or reground crank to swap in, but then send the original away to get built up and reground so you have a spare, or one to sell. Edited April 11, 2015 by Gordon_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted April 11, 2015 Author Share Posted April 11, 2015 Really interesting, doesn't look cheap but if you don't ask..... I think I'm going to be busy on the phone this week. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Friend of mine just had this done on a Wolosley engine, white metal no shells. Cost on that was £125 per journal, and he needed four done. Mind you the engine is now running very sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 Very interesting Tony, do you know which shop he used out of interest? I've spoken to Mr Rivers and the standard size for the Journal should be 2.0615" so will be measuring up after work to see how bad/ what I have? Cheers Steve Ps apparently new cranks are available at £900 odd so there's my benchmark to aim for..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Interesting, so basically they start at 2 1/16" and final undersize is exactly 2". I remember you mentioned that those one cylinder shells did not match the other five cylinders, so after you have measured up the journal in question, pull the cap on the next journal and see what size that is, either by the markings on the shells or by measuring it. If you are getting one journal reworked you will want to know the size of the other five before you start asking for quotes. Give all the other big ends a good rattle while you are there in case you have more than one issue, :cool2: but I would expect any rework company to do additional checks anyway before starting work, then check the cleanliness of the crank oil passageways before returning it to you. Edited April 13, 2015 by Gordon_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Very interesting Tony, do you know which shop he used out of interest? I've spoken to Mr Rivers and the standard size for the Journal should be 2.0615" so will be measuring up after work to see how bad/ what I have? Cheers Steve Ps apparently new cranks are available at £900 odd so there's my benchmark to aim for..... I'll ask Phil the guys name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well I had a chance to do some measuring and journals 2-6 are 2.053" roughly unfortunately is ovalled ranging from 2.046-2.018" and the scores are deep :cry: so either get the crank built up or replacement is on the cards just got to cost things up. Here are some pics of the bad shells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Ouch! This is the guy Phill used. Having seen and driven his work, the work is excellent. http://www.classiccarwebsite.com/john-kirkby-white-metalling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Ouch, well those are toast. Rebuild one journal but get all of them refinished I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I would expect any rework company to do additional checks anyway before starting work, then check the cleanliness of the crank oil passageways before returning it to you. Don't take that for granted; some crank grinders will leave the oilways full of debris and expect you to clean it out. (I know this to my cost). Always clean out the oilways with a solvent cleaner and then blow through with compressed air to make certain nothing remains, before refitting the crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Looking at the outside of the shells, it appears that they have spun in the conrod. I reckon you will have to change the conrods as the new shells will not fit properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Looking at the outside of the shells, it appears that they have spun in the conrod. I reckon you will have to change the conrods as the new shells will not fit properly. A good crank grinding shop will be able to check the extent of the damage and, if it is not excessive, skim a little from the rod/cap mating surfaces and then bore the big end out again to the correct size to accept new shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Looking at the outside of the shells, it appears that they have spun in the conrod. I reckon you will have to change the conrods as the new shells will not fit properly. The internal on the conrod doesn't look that bad but I'll measure up with a decent intenal micrometer once we've cleaned it up but con rods are easy enough to get hold of, it's only the crank (and a decent build stand) that are difficult to get my hands on. I'm not sure about the building up of the journal and re grinding idea as I've heard of it going wrong later down the years and i'd rather just do the engine once. Has anyone else had experience of having a Journal rebuilt up? Thanks for all the advice everyone Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Don't have any experience with the process, but I haven't heard any bad feedback. That said,one expensive repair that went wrong would probably generate a whole pile more comment than another 99 that just worked forever after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanter Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 That is true, the failures I've heard of have mainly been on 2 strokes, so totally different running conditions (high revs, low mass compared to the plodding Dodge engine) as I say until I get the front end apart and get the engine into a stand I'm just figuring numbers, just wish it hadn't happened while my right wrist is buggered. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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