Duffy Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 We are talking about my Samson. The one I won in the Littlefield auction last summer. It was running ok for a while and then it started to do some funky stuff. It will start right up with full choke and rev up to about 2600-2800 rpms and after about 10 -15 seconds it will quickly shut it's self down. Choke off and then back on and attempt to start it again. It starts right up again. I could repeat this forever. I started to investigate. 1. I thought fuel, but I had just put 50 litres of fresh petrol in. 2. Fuel filter. I disassembled and cleaned it. 3. Fuel pump. Checked the small filter on it...was good. 4. Fuel flow. Disconnected fuel line to carb and turned on ignition to see if fuel pump...pumped to carb. The fuel smelt fresh. Was good. 5. Removed the top part of carb to check out float etc. Looked good 6. Removed the top from the distributor and gave it a quick look. Did not disassemble. Seemed ok but I wasn't sure what I was or maybe looking for. 7. Removed old and put new plugs in. I started it up again and she fired up and purred. I let it run, adjusting the rpm frequently for about 30 minutes. I thought I had fixed it....I felt real good about my powers of deduction. Bad plugs!! Yesterday I went into the "Tank Hanger" to change the oil in the Samson. I tried starting it and the same thing happened as before. Starts up easy and then shuts down. So it wasn't the plugs! It must be the carb! So today I removed a new carb from one of the two spare rebuilt J60sthat I have and removed the old and fitted a new carb. Started it up and the same damn thing!!! Started easy but then shut down. So the carb is good. The only other thing I had touched was the distributor. But all I had done was to remove the cap and glance in. So this afternoon I pulled off the distributor cap and the inside red circular plate that covers the wires. There appeared to be oil-like fluid over one of the wires were it is pressed in to make contact. I cleaned it off and pressed all wires to ensure contact...put it all back together and then started it up again. Again it started up but did not quit after 10 seconds. Actually it sounded great...BUT after about 3 minutes it shut itself down again. A restart attempt had it back to the 10 second run time again. What am I missing here??? There appears to be a condenser bolted to the top plate of the Distributor cap. I am thinking I should clean and re-attached??? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 It could be some sort of blockage in the fuel system; something big-ish that is being sucked into the collection point when running. Have you tried running it from an external fuel tank (jerrycan)? I don't know the specifics, but I do know that a lot of CVR(T) owners have trouble with the standard fuel tanks and often replace them with others. Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Faulty capacitor or coil, perhaps? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mill comms Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I had a similar problem with my Samson, the bottom of the fuel tank was full of water, like 25 litres. Due to the construction of the fuel tank, water is trapped between the torsion bar tunnels. So draining the tank and re-filling does not solve the problem. You will need to drain tank and remove access hatches and remove all traces of water contamination. Dont use a shop vac for this.(I did and it exploded.luckily it was outside) If fuel is your problem , just re-check for water in fuel filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffy Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 The strange thing here is that it will immediately start up again right after it dies. If water in the fuel tank is shutting it down how could it start up again so quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Does the engine have an oil pressure by pass to allow the engine to start? If so, it will start, but if the oil pressure doesn't build up the engine cuts out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Does the engine have an oil pressure by pass to allow the engine to start? If so, it will start, but if the oil pressure doesn't build up the engine cuts out. Yes, 10-15 seconds is really too short for most ignition faults, and restarting easily makes a fuel problem unlikely, unless it is a blocked tank vent. trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Dear Al, somehow I really honestly feel you need to prove the whole fuel system from one end to the other otherwise you will be chasing your own tail forever. Frankly, as discussed at the dinner last night by those around my table, many of us are of the opinion that we do not use the vehicles we own or are responsible for enough to warrant using the original fuel tank. I honestly feel your pain but I would not be a true friend if I didnt bang on about a whole system approach rather than individual components especially as I know that this vehicle is new to you and could be suffering from any number of POSTs (previous owner stupid tricks). Yours Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy_massive Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Have you checked if the fuel pump is still running when the engine has stopped? Sounds like a fuel pumping issue to me. AFV fuel tanks do need draining of water from time to time but if that was the problem it would not re-start, however always worth draining it and refilling when you get the chance. CVR(T)fuel pumps are well known problem items and can sometimes be knocked accidentially leading to no fuel getting to the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I think this has to be a fuel issue. Try running from a clean Jerry can, if no good try a new fuel pump. Double check that air isn't getting in at any joints in the fuel pipes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffy Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Well it looks as if Starfire hit the nail on the head. Debris and crud must have been drawn into the collection point from the tank to the fuel pump and temporarily block it. Some fuel would get through to start it and the sucking or drawing action from the fuel pump would hold it there. After it quit and I turned off the ignition, the drawing action from the fuel pump stops and the debris would be some what released. I blew some air back into the tank which I believe displaced the gunk. I then of coarse started it up and all is well...for now. So for two days now it is 100%. I will now empty the tank and try to clean it from the fuel access port. Where the fuel level indicator float is situated. There is a fuel tank drain line that is accessible from the opening below the engine I had a similar issue with my MK2 Ferret. Thanks for all the suggestions. So now my Samson has a new set of plugs and a new carb.....not a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Dear Al, I'm glad you have it running again. Sorry we could not drop by on Saturday. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffy_massive Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Always worth checking that the fuel bag is not rippled and is laying nice and flat near the pick up pipe. Have had to remove a fuel bag before for just that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Always worth checking that the fuel bag is not rippled and is laying nice and flat near the pick up pipe. Have had to remove a fuel bag before for just that problem. No fuel bag in a Samson! (Or Spartan, striker, sultan, Samaritan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxmanguy Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 This is a common problem, one of the many issues from filling from jerrycans, only way to thoroughly sort it, is to drain the tank down and give it a good steam clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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