trophy160 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 My Saracen has alloy grenade launchers. On my ferret, the tubes were steel and it was easy (for me) to drill and weld in a 10mm bar across in each one which was sufficient for the UK proof house. I don't have the capability to weld alloy and anyway it strikes me that a 10mm alloy bar would be easily removed so might not be considered sufficient for the proof house. Has anyone deactivated these alloy tubes and if so what method was used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 why do you think they need to be deactivated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...575#post367575 If you were to get them deactivated here's the current standards ... Page 31 .. deactivation-of-firearms-2010-5.pdf Edited June 21, 2013 by Marmite!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophy160 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 First point to note is that I am aware that they are not classed as section 5, but they are technically a section 1 Firearm. I own a number of section 5 firearms held under section 7.3 Heritage firearm status. I actually used my Ferret as the initial justification for starting my heritage collection (sidearms used in British army armoured vehicles) and was required to have the grenade launchers deactivated and proofed. I clearly do not wish to compromise my 7.3 collection so need to consider how best to deactivate the grenade launchers on my Saracen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) First point to note is that I am aware that they are not classed as section 5, but they are technically a section 1 Firearm. I own a number of section 5 firearms held under section 7.3 Heritage firearm status. I actually used my Ferret as the initial justification for starting my heritage collection (sidearms used in British army armoured vehicles) and was required to have the grenade launchers deactivated and proofed. I clearly do not wish to compromise my 7.3 collection so need to consider how best to deactivate the grenade launchers on my Saracen. They are Section 5 under the true definition of the Firearms Act.. don't know where you get section 1 from ???? Strange that you have a Section 5 for sidearms but they wanted you to deactivate the smoke that you say is section 1?? I have a section 1 FAC with a calibre of 120mm, Section 1 FAC's are far easier to get than Section 5 But Again.. http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...575#post367575 Edited June 21, 2013 by Marmite!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 This subject keeps coming up time and again - try doing a search. In common with several other people I have letters from both the Home Office and ACPO expressing their opinion that smoke grenade launchers are pyrotechnic devices, not firearms. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locolines Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 This subject keeps coming up time and again - try doing a search. In common with several other people I have letters from both the Home Office and ACPO expressing their opinion that smoke grenade launchers are pyrotechnic devices, not firearms. Andy Thank heavens for that then, mine are still in one piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophy160 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 This subject keeps coming up time and again - try doing a search. In common with several other people I have letters from both the Home Office and ACPO expressing their opinion that smoke grenade launchers are pyrotechnic devices, not firearms. Andy Sadly, my FEO (firearms enquiry officer) for Kent Police believe them to be section 1 and since they are the issuing force for my FAC (firearms certificate) I have to listen to what they say or challenge them in court - that quite clearly is not going to happen!! However if you can point me in the direction of a Home Office ruling that they are not, I would be eternally grateful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophy160 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 They are Section 5 under the true definition of the Firearms Act.. don't know where you get section 1 from ???? Strange that you have a Section 5 for sidearms but they wanted you to deactivate the smoke that you say is section 1?? I have a section 1 FAC with a calibre of 120mm, Section 1 FAC's are far easier to get than Section 5 But Again.. http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...575#post367575 They are Section 5 under the true definition of the Firearms Act.. don't know where you get section 1 from ???? - single shot smooth bore barrel <24 inches, so section 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 They are Section 5 under the true definition of the Firearms Act.. don't know where you get section 1 from ???? - single shot smooth bore barrel <24 inches, so section 1 Section 5. vii) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing (section 5(1)(b)); Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophy160 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Well, I appreciate people challenging my understanding and experience (with Kent Firearms Licensing) of the requirements for grenade launchers as it has resulted in me just finding this.... https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/200071/Annex_4_Guide_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_2012-13_Definition_2.pdf - section 2.54 (k). Clearly this is absolutely definitive and is the reference I need. People's comments appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 (edited) Well, I appreciate people challenging my understanding and experience (with Kent Firearms Licensing) of the requirements for grenade launchers as it has resulted in me just finding this.... https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/200071/Annex_4_Guide_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_2012-13_Definition_2.pdf - section 2.54 (k). Clearly this is absolutely definitive and is the reference I need. People's comments appreciated k) armoured fighting vehicle (AFV) smoke dischargers used to project pyrotechnics for smoke screening; That is what it said in the link I posted & the link above has been posted on here a couple of times now. In the absence of a decision by a court, the Secretary of State takes the view that the following devices should not be regarded as firearms within the definition of the Act: Again that being said they are still classed as Section 5 by Law & only an amendment of the Firearms Act through Parliament can change that.. It's very unlikely anyone would end up in court over having dischargers but if they do then that would be the ultimate test. Edited June 21, 2013 by Marmite!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Again that being said they are still classed as Section 5 by Law & only an amendment of the Firearms Act through Parliament can change that. But only if they are legally considered to be a "weapon" :-) All discussions aside, it's nice to see that the guidance has been recently updated (April this year) and now includes what several of us have been told by letter. In the end only the courts can decide, but hopefully it won't ever come to that. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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