question Bedford mj 4x4 vs leyland daf 4x4

[AirArmed]

Evening all and hi I'm new to the forum, I hope this is the right place to ask these questions, I want to get a british 4x4 4 ton truck with a winch.

I have come up with using a bedford mj or a leyland daf 4x4 45. Just wondering what the pros and cons of both trucks are and which would be better. I have my C+E licence.

Does the daf have lots of electrical engine management?

Is the bedford mot exempt?

Which one is easier to get spares for?

Thanks for any help anyone has.

Ollie

[david56]

The DAF has no electronic management not even an electrical engine cut off with the ignition just the plain old cable connected to the injector pump.

 

The DAF cab is much bigger I have slept in mine but mainly use it for storing materials and tools.

 

There are plenty of spares for both ( Try David Crouch) but they will get more expensive as time goes on. Both these trucks are being phased out of service, so there is no manufacturers support and no new parts being made but the DAF is still related to the current models.

 

The Bedford's are nearly all gone but those that are coming up for sale seem to be ex reserve where the DAF's are in all conditions.

 

The winch trucks are much more expensive, but they can be registered as "recovery". When I was looking to buy I was offered Standard DAF for £4k and Winch for £7.5K by Withams.

 

The MOT exemption is dependant on how it is registered and age.

 

The cheap DAFs around now now seem to have rusty front wings and the bottom edge of the front panel which is double skinned so a pain to repair.

 

I bought mine on a Witham Auction and to be honest it is not the tidyist to look at but everything works though I have had lots of trouble with the transmission which I think may be related to using it on the motorway at 50mph which is a little fast.

 

Thats me on google street maps last summer.

 

What you decide good luck.

[cosrec]

The winch trucks are much more expensive, but they can be registered as "recovery".

When I was looking to buy I was Thats me on google street maps last summer.

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What you decide good luck.

Care to elaborate on that statement

does it mean that if its got a winch it atuomatically becomes

a recovery vehicle. If not what does it mean is the one in the picture recovery if so how and is it MOTed/Plated

[cosrec]

i do know david 56 has read thread and awaiting reply

[david56]

Both of these trucks are very easy to buy but not easy to register.

 

There are always a few on Ebay but very rarely are they carrying number plates though they are offered with the "correct" Paperwork!

 

I spent a considerable time looking into the options you must take into account the all the regulations operators licence, MOT, Tachograph etc

 

I wanted one for my work and originally planned to register it as Agricultural however the restrictions on Agricultural are quite strict and the two that concerned me most are the 80km radius and the non motorway use. Though the red diesel use was very tempting. In truth it is very difficult to register one of these as agricultural unless your work is in forestry and you intend to use it mostly off road

 

I investigated a recovery registration this looks easier especially if you have a winch or one that has a recovery style crane. It needs an MOT but is exempt from the Tachograph regulations. You wont be able to register an ordinary one as Recovery.

 

I registered mine as a Special Vehicle on the form and did not fill in any of the parts referring to Type Approval when the v5 came back it was Special Vehicle ( Tanker) which as you can see is what it is. I also sent off some pictures.

 

As construction Plant it is exempt from MOT and Also Operators Licence as I use it for work and driving is not my primary occupation then I am exempt from the Drivers cpc.

 

I was told by VOSA and a tester that it would need a Tachograph if i registered it as HGV and it would have to have a Tachograph and speed limiter and that the Tachograph would need to be digital this looked like £2k and would make the whole enterprise to expensive. On the quiet though it was suggested that if a second hand analogue was fitted the tester might well assume that it was original and let it through (no main stream tachograph centre would do this for you it is against the regulations).

 

For the MOT it will need side bars and rear underrun protection.

 

My advice would make absolutely sure of what you can and cant do and what you will be allowed to use it for before buying one. The guys that are selling them know all this and won't give you your money back.

 

If you plan to use it on the road for pleasure my advice would be to buy one that is already registered for unrestricted road use and be very careful of promises that all you need to do is send off the papers and it will be ok because it almost certainly wont. You must have the Blue MOD CAST form or get a letter from DAF to confirm the date of first use.

 

You will also have to send an insurance cover note with your application (more expense)

 

They can be registered as under 7.5 tonnes but they weigh 6.5 empty so can't carry any weight. They will still need a Tachograph as the Tacho rules come into play at 3.5.

 

I would stay clear of motorway service stations as VOSA hide out in the carparks.

 

David Crouch (0116 279 2245) will sell you a registered one but the price bears no relationship to the prices offered by the likes of Withams.

 

The emission regs mean that you will never be able to use it within the M25 with out paying the LEZ charge. The only exemption is Agricultural.

 

Thats what I ment by good luck.

David.

[cossy1]

How easy it it to register a RB 44 ?

 

regards Tony

[AirArmed]

Thanks for all the help it sounds like a lot of effort and hassle, was just wanting to rally it! I've got my class one so the 7.5 tonne licence isn't a problem.

 

What about it I wanted to register and use it for showmans use, anyone know anything about that?

[redneck]

Thanks for all the help it sounds like a lot of effort and hassle, was just wanting to rally it! I've got my class one so the 7.5 tonne licence isn't a problem.

 

What about it I wanted to register and use it for showmans use, anyone know anything about that?

 

If it's just for shows then derate it to 7.5tons, still costs money though (suspension mods and under run bars), but tacho exempt.

[redneck]

How easy it it to register a RB 44 ?

 

regards Tony

 

Fairly straightforward as its under 7.5t, you "may" need under run bars, class vii mot, so you need to book in advance which may take some time. See my thread on this very process http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?32275-Proving-age-of-vehicle-when-registering

 

​Make sure you have the cast cert from the MOD as this will make the process much easier.

[AirArmed]

Why would I have to down rate it if my license allows me to drive a 44 ton lorry? Could I not weld up and bolt on my own under run bars?

[redneck]

Why would I have to down rate it if my license allows me to drive a 44 ton lorry? Could I not weld up and bolt on my own under run bars?

 

 

Its not your licence that is the problem, as soon as you go over 7.5 t the vehicle has to comply with the larger HGV regs, tacho etc. Under 7.5t you can get it MOT'd easier class vii (not less stringent, just more availability of testers).

Tacho=http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_Theme_files/HGV_Tachograph_Exemption_Declaration_Form_0510.pdf

 

note the under 7.5t and not for carriage of goods

[cossy1]

Fairly straightforward as its under 7.5t, you "may" need under run bars, class vii mot, so you need to book in advance which may take some time. See my thread on this very process http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?32275-Proving-age-of-vehicle-when-registering

 

​Make sure you have the cast cert from the MOD as this will make the process much easier.

Hi again

if you turn it in to a camper do you need under run bars (RB with ops box on the back)?

Regards Tony

[redneck]

Hi again

if you turn it in to a camper do you need under run bars (RB with ops box on the back)?

Regards Tony

 

 

You have a PM

[AirArmed]

Would showman use be different tho?

[Richard Farrant]

Would showman use be different tho?

 

Unless you are a bonafied Showman, then you can forget that one, check this out;

http://www.showmensguild.com/transport.htm

[ferrettkitt]

I've seen plenty of camper conversions that do not have under run bars (DAFS & MJ's), campers are MOT'd under different regs compared to the HGV regs. For a vehicle to MOT'd as a camper it has to have the fittings fixed in place toilet beds and such.

 

In the RB44's case the Box body is tiny with enough room for two beds down the sides and a cooker somewhere near the door or in the middle of the aisle towards the front of the body. Underun bars not needed VOSA here in Chadderton would have mentioned it by now. RB44's were always MOT'd at the local VOSA station or the equivlant by the Army or its agents. My better halfs company had the contract for repairing and servicing the RB44's, Bedfords, Land rovers and the like for Manchester at one point.

 

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Edited December 28, 2012 by ferrettkitt

[cossy1]

I've seen plenty of camper conversions that do not have under run bars (DAFS & MJ's), campers are MOT'd under different regs compared to the HGV regs. For a vehicle to MOT'd as a camper it has to have the fittings fixed in place toilet beds and such.

 

In the RB44's case the Box body is tiny with enough room for two beds down the sides and a cooker somewhere near the door or in the middle of the aisle towards the front of the body. Underun bars not needed VOSA here in Chadderton would have mentioned it by now. RB44's were always MOT'd at the local VOSA station or the equivlant by the Army or its agents. My better halfs company had the contract for repairing and servicing the RB44's, Bedfords, Land rovers and the like for Manchester at one point.

 

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Hi Andy

thanks for the advice just toying with some ideas at the moment,like the thought of just turning up at a show and having instant accommodation.

Regards Tony

[ferrettkitt]

Hi Andy

thanks for the advice just toying with some ideas at the moment,like the thought of just turning up at a show and having instant accommodation.

Regards Tony

 

Hi Tony,

 

I liked that idea too so I bought a comms box I just need some time

[david56]

You can make up your own side and under run or buy some second hand ones from a breaker. The VOSA web site is not very clear how they need to be made only that they need to be strong and gives some dimensions. Most new lorries have them made out of aluminium so they are not that hefty.

 

The Tachograph is always a problem and if you fit a digital one and drive for a living how will that work?

 

I met a bloke who had a bedford with a hiab fitted after it left the services and he had that registered as a Mobile Crane no Tacho, no MOT Red Diesel.

 

Thing about registering things as what they clearly are not is there will always be a risk.

 

Also what about insurance?

 

David

[antar]

Hi Tony,

 

I liked that idea too so I bought a comms box I just need some time

 

And collect the ladder instead of using those wobbly steps

[ferrettkitt]

And collect the ladder instead of using those wobbly steps

 

Not problem can do, do you still want the other thing doing can combine both :-D

[antar]

Hi Tony,

 

I liked that idea too so I bought a comms box I just need some time

 

And collect the ladder instead of using those wobbly steps

[ferrettkitt]

And collect the ladder instead of using those wobbly steps

 

PM sent

[antar]

PM sent

 

PM replied to, don't know what happened there to get the double posting of the same thing ?

[stal108]

A couple of point

Daf over bedford all the way the daf has a better engine gbox perm 4wd and as we all like to think offroad the daf is much better on road and to be real thats where its more likley to be most of the time.. both have sim mpg but the daf will do 65mph and 17mpg

 

RB44 easy to register all this talk under run bars no idea where they get it on a rb44

 

Tacho,, if its over 3.5t and not 25years old you need one. READ ON if you gross over 3500kg you need a tacho. Even private use now... never used to be. but now you do. There are a few exemptions but not many now even recovery is only 50 mile from base.

 

Recovery is a sticky place to be,,,,, it should be for only suspended tow.. spec lifts,,,,a tilt and slide or a beavertail carrys i say again carrys so is not exempt , A winch truck can be recovery but can only carry equipment to use for recovery .So if you think your going to put say a damaged trailer on the back forget it only your straps chains or anything else needed. If you have a good STORY be ready to use it.

I was stoped in a beavertail with a stolly on the back on the M25 and i was given a notice to test it. No fine but i had a story" i bought it exempt and didnt know"..?? well it was true and i kept the advert from truck trader as it was only a few weeks before the Mag was still in the truck at the time.

 

Hope this helps