Danny152 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Merry Xmas to all HMVF members....... A quick question that someone might be able to help with in between their Xmas turkey..... What department - company made Shermans in the USA, is it something Arsenal???? And are they still going? If so would anyone know their address? Thanks for your time and help. Regards, Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_shadock Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 there were nine Sherman manufacturers. Here are the manufacture statistics : http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/data/sherman_production.html a thenth manufacturer made 188 M4A1(75) Grizzlys, it is Montreal Locomotive Works, but it is not included in this page. These statistics don't include Sherman variants like M7 Priests, M32 or M74 Recovery, Sextons, M10 TDs, etc etc.. P-O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 I beleive the Montreal Locomotive Works made 188 M4A1 Grizzlys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkitson Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Canadaian Pacific Railways, Angus Shops (not so commonly called Montreal Locomotive Works) produced 1,420 Valentines, 1,949 Ram's, 188 M4A1 Grizzlies, (+3 additional hulls for Skink), 2150 Sextons from 1941 to 1945. The Angus Shops were tore down about 8-10 years ago after sitting empty for some time. Perry Edited January 15, 2013 by pkitson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_shadock Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Canadaian Pacific Railways, Angus Shops (commonly called Montreal Locomotive Works) the name "Montreal Locomotive Works" appeared on Grizzly manufacturer's plates, I think that it was a kind of official name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) It says Ltd at the end, so MLW must have been the official registered company name to get that suffix. It is interesting that people say the Grizzly is the M4A5, yet the official makers plate states it is an M4A1..... It was in the mould of the M4A1 anyway:-D Edited January 13, 2013 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Sorry Alistair, the M4A5 designation was reserved for Rams when it was expected that the US army would be receiving half the production of Rams. As Ram production never got to the levels anticipated and took a very long time to get going the Americans got frustrated and cancled the order leaving the Ram as Canadian / UK only and the M4A5 designation never appeared on any official paperwork that I have seen. Certainly not in official publications and a Ram builders plate Gives just "Ram I or II" and the manufacturer as Montreal locomotive works ltd. The Grizzly on the other hand was an M4A1 from the start and got its name in addition to that, in keeping with British / Canadian policy of naming everything. Grizzlies were identical to US produced M4A1s except that the master switch box was partly inherited from Ram/Sexton and they were wired from new for 19 sets rather than American radios. As US build standard advanced it took some time to soak through to Canada so Grizzlies never got the one piece front ends that Shermans got. Also the Canadians developed their own tracks (CDP) which required its own sprockets but this was totally interchangeable and was a bit like putting different wheels on a car, its still the same car. Hope this helps. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 It's only Pat Ware in his Haynes Sherman Manual who calls the Grizzly the M4A5 and he also states it as having thicker armour than the standard M4A1.... Where these things come from I have no idea! The hulls were cast in the USA anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) Both Grizzlies and Rams used hull castings supplied from USA by General Steel. Their foundry mark (a G in a shield) appears centrally on the front of Grizzlies and on the inside of the rear overhang behind the engine bay of the Ram, also on bogie castings of modern railway carriages! See Mr Shadock's excellent website - link in the seccond post of this thread. Grizzlies being rather behind the US production standard were never produced with 'thin' armour on each side by the ammo bins. From the start they received added 'applique' armour in those three areas ( one on the left, two on the right) in the factory as was being done in the US at the same time. However for the seccond batch of Grizzlies this 'extra' armour was cast in as gentle swellings on the actual hull casting and this could be what the Haynes book is refering to. This hull casting was not unique to Grizzlies as it shows up on US produced M4A1s occasionaly, for some reasion many of the Mine roller tanks that are based on M4A1s used that casting. It is simply a typical Sherman variation caused by suppliers having lattitude to modify details as long as they dont change the big picture. Bogie castings are a good example of this - see the above website. David Edited January 14, 2013 by David Herbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkitson Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) The name Montreal Locomotive Works Ltd. is indeed the official name on the data plate. The point I was making is that from the outset, the complex at Montreal, run by Canadaian Pacific Railways, had always been called "Angus Shops", and was a large employer of Montrealer's. Ask someone from Montreal where the Montreal Locomotive Works were and you would get a puzzled look. I have edited my previous post to clarify. Like Adrian says, most large components for the Grizzly came from the US (hull castings, engines, transmissions, controlled differentials) while fabricated parts and assembly being done in Montreal. Perry Edited January 15, 2013 by pkitson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnixartillery Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) It's only Pat Ware in his Haynes Sherman Manual who calls the Grizzly the M4A5 and he also states it as having thicker armour than the standard M4A1.... Where these things come from I have no idea! The hulls were cast in the USA anyway. A fact that you should never believe all that you read in books,especially if it is someone elses oppinion. I realized this researching the Pheasant. Perry, how is that Machine of yours coming along ? Rob................rnixartillery. Edited January 15, 2013 by rnixartillery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) A fact that you should never believe all that you read in books Or original manuals for that matter Rob, in fact, believe nothing but what you see yourself! Of course you can go wrong there too, is what you are looking at a post war mod? I have some parts on the Loyd which don't appear in the manuals, were they added by the Belgians in the 50s? Who knows... Edited January 15, 2013 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_shadock Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 To answer the question : Federal Machine and Welder : plant located in Warren, OH. Closed down in 1963. Pacific Car and Foundry : Company created at Seattle in 1901, original name was Railway Steel & Supply Company. It manufactured rails, wagons and train equipments. After 1945, PCF stopped to produce railway equipments and built some trucks, and then refrigerated trucks. It closed down in 1984. Baldwin Locomotive Works : Company created in 1832 under the name Baldwin Vail and Huffy. It started its life producing steam locomotives and rails, and in 1890 it tried to develop a small electric locomotive to be used in mines. Baldwin produced some M3 Lees before assembling Sherman tanks. It was the first company to assemble Sherman hulls by welding. After the war, it merged with Hamilton and Lima LW to become the Baldwin Lima Hamilton Co. , and in 1972 it stopped to produce any rail equipment. Lima Locomotive Works : created in 1859 to develop steam machines. First company to manufacture the Sherman tank from February 1942, due to its ability to cast the M4A1 hull. Merged with Baldwin to form the Baldwin Lima Hamilton Co., the Lima plant closed its doors in 1980. ALCO : created on 24 June 1901, gathered smaller companies, including Schenectady Locomotive Works. This company manufactured M3 Lees, M7 Priests, M36 TDs during WW2. It was bought by the Studebaker Worthington Incorporated in 1964. In 1969, Bombardier acquired the assets of ALCO for the locomotive activity, and the motor/engine activity was sold to White Motor Corporation in 1970. Pullman Standard : created in 1862 ,specialized in the building of high-standard wagons. Assets bought by Bombardier in 1987. Pressed Steel Car : created in 1895 after the merging of Schoen Pressed Steel Co. and the Fox Pressed Steel Equipment Co.Specialized in the production of wagons, tramways, rails. Bought by US Steel in 1956, the plant closed after 1970. Fisher : see General Motors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors Then we have Ford and Chrysler, and that's it !! P-O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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