Help please with markings / service of 1965 2a FFR (11ER04) with the 101 RA

[Paulisabout]

Hi what markings / decals could be used to mark up a Land Rover Series 2a serving for the RA in 60s/70s ?

B-card below

ERM 12 ER 04

Edited October 24 by Paulisabout

[Paulisabout]

[Paulisabout]

[10FM68]

Now, if it were 103 Regt (V) it would be easy as I have lots of photos of them, and 100 was the regiment which owned my old Lightweight, but 101.  Don't know yet, let me have a dig.

 

A quick glance at the internet suggests that this was a Northumbrian TA regiment and there is a Facebook site Northumbrian Volunteer Artillery Association. It's a private group, so you'd have to apply to join, but they will be able to tell you all you need to know

Edited October 24 by 10FM68

[Paulisabout]

It’s the “101 (Northumbrian) Medium Regiment Royal Artillery” hes after.

Would this be the door badge?

 

[10FM68]

Probably not as that is the generic RA badge.  It is more likely that each of the 3 constituent batteries would carry their own insignia. At that time they would have been 203, 204 and 205 Med Btys RA (V).  But, of course, your vehicle might also have belonged to regimental HQ.  Try their Facebook page.

[Paulisabout]

How does the 101 fit with the 203, 204 and 205 ??

[10FM68]

20 minutes ago, Paulisabout said:

How does the 101 fit with the 203, 204 and 205 ??

In the Royal Artillery the equivalent of an infantry battalion is called a regiment.  It is still commanded by a lieutenant colonel.  In this case that regiment is 101.  Usually the RA describe their regiments according to their role, eg Medium, Light, Field, Light Anti Aircraft etc etc but 101 was a Territorial Army regiment with its own title - (Northumbrian).  It still exists.  Each regiment is made up of batteries (equivalent to infantry companies and commanded by majors).  RA batteries have their own distinctive histories with, usually, their own titles from that history.  RA units don't win battle honours as thie motto is Ubique, meaning everywhere - which, of course, reflects the fact that there won't have been many battles where the RA haven't taken part.  Nor do they have colours (regimental flags) as their colours are the actual guns (which is why you salute them on parades).  The batteries, in this case 203, 204 and 205 during the period you are looking at were medium batteris eg (204 Medium Battery RA (V) - the (V) being for Volunteer as opposed to regular army.  Medium at that time would have meant that they would have been equipped with 5.5" guns towed by Leyland Martian Medium Artillery Tractors (with, possibly, one or two old AEC Matadors as they were a TA unit.)

You'd have to look up exactly how many guns each battery had (probably 8 in two troops of 4, but I can't remember.  I have it written down somewhere.  But each battery would have a deputy - called a second-in-command - in RA parlance the Battery Captain or BK and a number of Land Rovers, 3 tonners etc, some with radios some without.  And RHQ would also have similar vehicles.  Generally speaking, those in the chain of command: Commanding Officer, Battery and Troop Commanders would have FFR Land Rovers as would one or two others.

[Paulisabout]

So what kind of markings would it have on the doors and back / front ?

[10FM68]

I don't know, Paul.  You'd have to talk to someone from the Association.  But, it was probably the RA arm of service sign on the offside of the vehicle which would be a square divided red over blue, possibly with a white strip at the top with a designation - perhaps something like 101 Med Regt RA(V).  I don't know what formation sign they'd have carried as that would depend on which formation they were assigned to.  In Northumberland the TA had generally carried the 'Tyne Tees sign of 50th (Northumbrian) Division (a black square with two interlocking red 'T's

But, whether that was carried by 101 at that time, I don't know.  On the doors, if anything, and not all units used door badges, would be the badge of the battery.  The only one I can find on the net is that of 205 Bty.  (Added - I see 203 took on Elswick 1900-1901 South Africa honorific but, both this and the one for 205 date only from 1974, so too late for your vehicle as at 1970.  Given that 101 Regiment was only formed in 1967, it is, therefore, probable, that no battery badges were used in 1970 - only after 1974.

but, whether that was carried on vehicle doors I don't know.  Whether there was a number on the AOS sign I don't know either, but TA units sometimes carried their regimental number so it would be 101 as in this example

which is a Quad FAT belonging to 278 Field Regiment RA (V) subordinate to the 52nd (Lowland) Division whose formation sign is on the nearside.  Note there is no battery or regimental badge on the door.

Edited October 24 by 10FM68
Added amendment

[Paulisabout]

[10FM68]

As I said above, the honorifics, Elswick etc, Tyneside Scottish and 3 DAV were introduced only in 1974 so too late for your friend's vehicle.  But, on the RA AOS sign writing is always white, not black.  Honestly, though, we're only guessing here, as I said, I don't know.  Much better to join the Facebook group and ask someone who could give you the true answer in a trice.

[Paulisabout]

.

Edited October 24 by Paulisabout

[fv1609]

This is the nearest I've got to yours.

[Paulisabout]

3 hours ago, fv1609 said:

This is the nearest I've got to yours.

 So what are those markings??

Thanks for the photo.

[07BE16]

2nd Infantry battalion of 19th Infantry Brigade which was part of 3 Division.

Depending on date;

1st Bn Durham Light Infantry 1966 which became 4th Bn Light Infantry in July 1968

or

2nd Bn Light Infantry  March 1969 to March 1974

[B series]

Clive,

ERM II ER 06  That an interesting in service photo.

I have not seen a bulkhead & screen vents cut off at bonnet level before and replaced with a tube frame, anyone know why?  This modification would prevent the fitting of a windscreen or doors as the top hinge mounting is missing, but photo appears to be taken in the UK. Maybe it has been modified for hot country / desert operations, but is still in DBG and has not deployed yet?

Also what is the rectangular item between the front seats, it does not look like the water can holder sometimes fitted.

Also I think this vehicle has a front mounted PTO winch made by Turner, but these were sometimes fitted to REME LAD vehicles, but I have never seen one on a FFR vehicle before.

 

 

[fv1609]

Yes it is all rather strange that made me wonder whether it was something used in a 1960s film? My first thought that it may have been from Digby : the Biggest Dog in the World that includes some convoys that include Pig, Champ & Dingo. But possibly a film of that era particularly as the beret wearing doesn't ring true with what I would expect from professional soldiers.

[B series]

I think you are correct, not in service but a film prop.

II ER 06 should have a 40 Amp front grille & rectifier same as II ER 04, but it does not.

Also there is a bracket on the OS bonnet over the headlamp, I think this could be for mounting a sun compass, looks similar. All points to being a film prop for dessert scene, and maybe  re painted to DBG for another film.  May not even be a original FFR or even II ER 06.

 

 

[jmehner]

11ER06 does fall into a range of Land Rover numbers, so it could be the real deal. It may very well be a vehicle modified for recce, like the Paras did with 109s. The tubular frame would be a gun mount for a Bren or GPMG. The Para recce Land Rovers also lost their windscreens, tarpaulins etc., they get in the way of sight and hearing on mission, plus the government issues you with a winter hat, pullover and some kind of rainproof, after all.😉

As for how berets are worn, do not get me started, I was shocked when I saw the photos of the guys in the RL and the Martian in this thread - they would have been summarily shot in my unit for abusing their berets in that way.

 

Cheers,

Jens

[10FM68]

Regarding the berets - I think the wind has a lot to do with it!  There's a similar photo of Monty sitting in the back of a Dodge Command Car with Eisenhower and his beret also looks like a helipad!  But, it is interesting to note how the fashion of how a beret is worn changes subtly over time!  (Look at the 'Yorkshire flat cap' way the Paras wear theirs even on formal parades these days - that would certainly have 1980s RSMs spluttering!)  Centre-pull was popular in the 60s particularly with those who wore headphones and the TA often wore theirs differently from the regulars.  The maker made a difference as well -some were a nightmare to shrink or to shape - so people liked to purchase their own "Victors" berets which had smaller tops.

I think it's an in-service picture - the markings are correct, the NCO's dark green chevrons correct, as are his black buttons or shoulder titles and dark green berets.  The paint scheme is also correct for that period.  In the James Taylor/ Geoff Fletcher book on the leaf-sprung military Land Rovers there are similar photos of 19 Bde Land Rovers with similar markings.  19 Bde were part of the Strategic Reserve at that time so some of it ay well be for out-of-area ops.  The thing between the seats may not be part of the vehicle, but something being carried.  The tubular replacement on the scuttle requires a bit more thought, particularly on a 88" FFR.  At first I thought it might be for mounting something like the 106mm recoilless rifle, but why on an SWB FFR?  Needs more thought.

[10FM68]

Further to my comments above, there are pictures of 19 Bde Land Rovers in the Taylor/Fletcher book showing a number of interesting oddities, suggesting that the brigade, at that time, were doing trials or demonstrations.  The scuttle frame is mounting a 7.62 Bren, there are bumper-mounted jerrican holders etc etc.  Page 60.  Clearly more than one battalion was involved - see the 109" with Wombat on page 68.  Vehicles showing both 8 & 9 on red are featured with one suggested as belonging to the Green Howards making the period 65/66.  If that is the case then the LI bn will be the DLI.