ArtistsRifles Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Spent today trying to get my brake lights to work in the approved fashion - i.e. come on then go off... Result thus far is abject failure :cry: :cry: The nylon block is free to move in both the metal housing and the nylon cap yet when the brakes are applied either the lights do not come on - or they come on and stay on.... Was rapidly approaching the scream and throw something stage of life this afternoon!! Any one got any thoughts on this PITA issue??? (one thing I did learn was that God obviously loves MV owners who are idiots - first time the switch came apart I forgot about the return spring which shot off - and landed in a block of grease immediately below, then a couple of times later I turned the cap over forgetting there was a screw in one hole - which promptly fell out and landed in a bracket at the top of the engine... :-o :-o ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 4, 2007 Author Share Posted February 4, 2007 OK - switch apart numerous times today - still nothing - in fact now I've got NO brake lights at all now... :-( :-( To just to add to the fun - one of the carb diaphragms decided to split and give me a nice petrol leak!!!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian2b Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Neil is it time for a new switch :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 4, 2007 Author Share Posted February 4, 2007 That would be the ideal job Ian - but new switches are rarer than a bacon sarnie breakfast in a certain building in Finsbury Park!! :-( :cry: C&C had an advert on MilWeb resently saying they had some Stollie spares - I'm going to give them a ring tomorrow and see if they can produce a miracle!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian2b Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Is there nothing else that can be fitted or made to fit ? other than that i surpose i could lend you one of the kids to work a switch everytime you shout brake on - off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 Push comes to shove I can fit a car type switch , need to make up a bracket or some thing to hold it, in the cab and run the cables back to the original connectors. Loath to do that right now as it detracts from standard.. The original design is simple enough - I just can't understand why it's not working!! Sad old wotsit - aren't I?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Neil Did you take the switch apart in situ, I think from memory there are gauze filters in the housing where the pipes fit. As a quick fix you could just put a microswitch and spring on the brake pedal and wire it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 We never dismantled the air side of the switch, just the moving components on the non-air side - reason being, prior to me tinkering, they would come on first time the brakes were used and then stay on. Conventional wisdom from the owners forum said this would be due to either corrosion or the nylon disc swelling - had neither when I got it apart but some thing is definitely sticking as, at one point they would not come on but with the pedal wedged down and the engine running a sharp tap on the side of the switch brought them on - and then they stayed on..... After Sundays work though nothing is happening :-( Maybe next W/E I'll remove the whole thing and take a look at the air side as well then!! Microswitch will be a last resort (he says now!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Neil Just seen the thread on the Fort, its a lot easier to get at the stop light switch though the rear hull cover plate. First remove the 101 1/4" bolts from around the perimeter of the cover plate, Place a jack and length of wood under the NATO hitch and only just take up the slack. Remove the four big long bolts that hold the cover plate in place, it cant go anywhere because of the pegs on the hull at the bottom and the jack. Get someone to hold the bottom of the plate on the pegs with their boot while you lower the jack. (You might have to give it a bit of a tap with a hammer and screwdriver to break the seal if it hasn't been off in a while) As you lower the jack the top will hinge down with the bottom on the pegs, lower just enough to get your hands in and just lift off the pegs, one person either side is best but if can be lifted by one person if your feeling strong. Fitting is reverse but smear a bit of grease on the seal Once the plate is off get yourself a beer crate to sit on and poke your head up inside the hull, the switch is there on the left with lots of room to get at it (lots of room in Stalwart terms :-D) Be a bit carefull when undo to pipes (remember to drain the air out of the system first) as they can twist on the flare nuts, you can clean out the bilge pump filter while you are there. Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 This is what it's about this forum helping hands from afar across the ether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 :-) :thankyou: :thankyou: Might have to give that a whirl!! For some reason, though, my switch is the other way up to the position shown in the manuals - electrics are on top, centre air pipe underneath. Electrics I can get at - relatively easily. Popping the rear plate will be good for the air feeds. That said - I found an exploded view of the switch today: http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/ArtistsRifles/Stollies/large_diag_Stalwart_stop_light_a-1.jpg[/img] No filters or anything shown there - tech book said this about it: STOP LIGHT SWITCH AND DOUBLE CHECK VALVE 270. The combined stop light switch and double check valve (Fig 36(9)) is utilized to prevent the loss of air pressure through the open exhaust of either brake control valve when the other is applied, and completes the stop light electrical circuit when a brake application is made. The stop light switch is an electro pneumatic device which operates in conjunction with the brake valve and stop light by completing the stop light electrical circuit. 271. The double check valve (Fig 48) comprises a die-cast metal body (3) containing a shuttle valve and guide. The shuttle valve (5), consisting of a metal sleeve with a moulded rubber insert is free to move along the guide (4). In operation, when either brake valve is actuated, compressed air enters one of the ports at each end of the valve body and pushes the shuttle valve to the opposite end of the guide. In this position, the shuttle valve seals the passage to the other brake valve and allows air to pass from the actuated brake valve to the air cylinders or brake chambers. The stop light switch piston (7), contact strip (8), spring, and cover assembly (9) are mounted in the double check valve body, with the piston against the '0' ring diaphragm (6). A protective gaiter (10) is fitted over the piston-cover and cable terminal. Taken from: EMER V642/2: Truck, Cargo FFR HMLC 5 Ton 6x6 W/Winch Alvis Stalwart - All Derivatives - Technical Handbook - Technical Description Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Neil Basically its a shuttle valve as it says, if the shuttle rubbers are worn then it is not allowed to move freely, we use a similar type at work for air pistons and there is a "seal kit" that replaces all the rubbers/seals, surely there is a kit that is used for overhauling these switches rather than replacing the whole gubbins, if not have you tried a bit of silicon grease up the spout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Neil It sounds like the shuttle valve is sticking and holding air pressure on the switch. I had the same problem on mine, took the switch apart (air and switch side) cleaned out all the crud (there was lots in the air side) lubed it up & put it back together and it worked ok :clap: I am sure there was gauze filter's in there but its been about 8 years since and I've been to bed since :dunno: I had a look at mine last night and the electrical connections are pointing down but I don't think it makes any difference. It is quite a common fault on a Stolly and I am sure I will be taking mine apart again soon once she is up and running again :banghead: If you do take the end hull cover plate off let us know what goodies you find, there should be at least a couple of spanners down there :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Will do - already found a few under the cab floor and on top of the dowty tunnels (kicked under the flooring) :-) What did you use to wash the valve out with? Petrol or something else?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 What did you use to wash the valve out with? Petrol or something else?? It just went in the Gunk tank, make sure you blow it all out with an air line afterwards to remove all of the residue and lube it up with OM13, dont use any form of solvent just in case it attacks any of the switch components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Many thanks - will have a go at the weekend (weather permitting)!!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon stolly Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Hi Neil, still having fun with you lights? I'm still trying to sort out my stolly's inconsistent running, One minute it runs fine and then I come to it another time and its missing like a good-un! plugs out again!!!! Hopefully have it running better for Beltring and we can recreate that picture of the stolly airborne you posted! We are going for two weeks this year, I can't wait, I estimate that there will be around 30 of us going, some camp! I noticed that you where bidding on the B series tools and the stolly tools on ebay, well I got them, should you need too borrow any give me a shout and I send them to you, you just pay the post, and send them back when you've finished with them. I also had 16 technical drawings off the same chap showing Stalwart systems, they are roughly 2'x3' and would look great in a workshop/ shed/ lavvy. I will photo them when I find the camera charger and post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Yep - still having fun :-) Going to have another look on Sunday after firing the carb's pump diaphragms and try a new way of re-assembling the switch - this time I'm going to try rubbing the OM-13 equivalent on the nylon block seating the gasket on the switch, fitting the block then trying to position the spring and cap. Will also try positioning the shuttle valve either far left or far right first. Then see how it goes!!! Are you sure it's the plugs on yours and not condensor or other ignition components? Glad another list member got the tools :-) Went a bit too high for me currently! Appreciate the loan offer too - as and when required I'll be in touch :-) :-) :-) I'll be getting down to Beltring the Saturday before (will be an OAP then) - over in the America's field with Lee, Stuart, John and the gang as per last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 SO assume you got the brake switch working then Neil, what was it in the end ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 No Mark - still not working. Still coming on and staying on. :-( Got one more thing to try - going to try trimming the gasket back to the dia of the bore of the switch body in case he plunger is being caught on that. If this fails to cure it then I'm going to call it a day and try wiring a microswitch on the pedal!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Neil Did you ring that company I gave you that made them for the MOD, were they not any help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 No Mark - still not working. Still coming on and staying on. :-( Neil, I would give Richard Banister a call, if he does not have one, then go to a Motor Factor who specialises in commercials as these parts tend to be commonly used. From memory it is a Clayton Dewandre manufacture. As it is at the end of an air line, again from memory, there is no through flow of air, so I would not be surprised if there was a load of rust or crud in the pipe causing your problems. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 Neil Did you ring that company I gave you that made them for the MOD, were they not any help? Not yet Clive - thats for next week at work :-) Neil, I would give Richard Banister a call, if he does not have one, then go to a Motor Factor who specialises in commercials as these parts tend to be commonly used. From memory it is a Clayton Dewandre manufacture. As it is at the end of an air line, again from memory, there is no through flow of air, so I would not be surprised if there was a load of rust or crud in the pipe causing your problems. Richard Got air going through Richard 'cos the lights come on first time the pedal is touched. But they don't go off again meaning something is stoppping the spring pushing the switch block back. The smaler dia is a rough finish, loose in the switch bore BUT a tight fit in the gasket. I'm wondering if the rough surface is catching on the gasket and holding it in place, preventing the return spring from operating, Either that or there is a fault on the air system which means the shuttle valve the switch is attaached to is getting air presure 100% of the time after the brake pedal is pushed??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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