introduction Allo, Allo! (from the U.S.)

[EKA_Wrecker]

Hello,

 

I'm from the Island that is Long haha just outside the City. I'd first like to thank all of those that created and contribute to this great site. There seems to be tons of great info and I haven't even scratched the surface. I've been lurking for awhile and my interest in foreign (to me) MVs has grown so much that I just had to join. My hobbies, interests, knowledge, skills and abilities vary widely. I'm sure I'll be asking a million questions (after an extensive search of course.)

 

Among my other cars, trucks, equipment, trailers, small vessels, stuff etc. I do own the following MVs:

 

M35A2 (Converting to M756A2 Pipeline Construction "oilfield" Deuce)

M819 Tractor-Wrecker

M923

 

I don't own but have experience operating these MVs on a regular basis:

 

M8 & M20 Scout Car

Ferret Scout Car

M4A1 HST

M4A3E8 Sherman

M936 Wrecker

 

 

My first question: Maybe I've missed this... Is there a section of this forum or site that contains a digital depository or library of British/Euro MV and equipment manuals? Finding anything U.S. in .pdf format is pretty easy and I have a sizeable digital collection. I'm not having the same luck searching the "internets" for let's say, Foden or Scammell Wreckers etc.

 

Thanks again for your time. If you have any questions about anything U.S. or need help looking for/locating parts/info that you can't find over in your neck of the woods feel free to ask. I'm not on the net all day so It may take a day to get a response.

 

Talk to you later...

[cosrec]

hi welcome to the forum.

Any pictures of the wreckers thats where my intrests are.

[private mw]

hi a warm welcome to the forum other members will be in bed or in the clubhouse at this time in the uk. ive been selected for guard duty again !:red:

[cosrec]

I find downloading good pdf files for any ex UK MOD vehicle info virtually non existant. I did once find an aec site that had a download of a report comparing the aec militant v Volvo/EKA but i cant find it now. This site does give extracts from the Crusader/Eka user manual

http://mighty-scammell.co.uk/pageID_7939539.html

Apart from that i know of no others. But you see various handbooks etc for sale on E Bay

[shane.c]

Welcome to HMVF,

[Big ray]

Hi, welcome to the friendly forum, that was a good and comprehensive introduction, good luck with your search and your forthcoming questions, plenty of knowledgeable people on here. I do feel that you might make a considerable contribution yourself, stay in touch.

[Tony B]

Welcome in.

[EKA_Wrecker]

Hi,

 

Thank you everyone for the welcome. And thank you Cosrec for that link to the Scammell Crusader Ops Manual! I did manage to find that Volvo EKA evaluation .pdf and thats about it. Great stuff. Its funny how each country is strict with certain things and not others (in this case release of information.)

 

Okay... Here's my Deuce, just a plain old M35A2 bone stock W/O Winch. It may not look pretty body/paint wise but mechanically I keep it running like a top. I've put many miles on it over the years carrying out various tasks whether they be for work or pleasure. A great truck.

 

Here it is going 45mph through a mud puddle. Looks like an Aberdeen Proving Ground Test, haha.

 

...and here it is on firewood detail...

 

 

The M923 carries on when the loads are too much for even the little Deuce to handle. Yeah it's an automatic tranny but it still has the old chassis and drivetrain of the 800 series (except the tranny.) It doesn't have any of that electronics or computer garbage or troublesome CTIS like the A2. The best aspect of the 939 series over the older 5-tons is the return to a full air brake system. It's nice and quiet in the cab on roadtrips and roomy too. I do curse the dropside bed as latching the tailgate isn't a one-second operation like putting the hook in the slot like on the Deuce. If there's a load in the bed it wants to push the side walls out and the chain and cargo top bungee get tangled when you're cranking the "wingnut." Oh well.

 

 

Once you have a wrecker you don't know how you lived without one, haha. The M819 is great. The longer wheelbase makes it safer and more capable for lift-towing ops than the M816/543/62. The longer boom is much appreciated too. The lack of a rear drag winch is a bit of a bummer but I make do with the front unit. I also like that it doesn't have an automatic idle adjustment when using the crane. I don't like the engine racing away when your conducting delicate lifting ops. The Cummins can be at idle and lift 10k lb.+ load without a drop in engine rpm. I've never utilized the 5th wheel yet as I don't have the maneuvering room for such a trailer in the yard, haha.

 

[Snapper]

Welcome along to the Friendly Forum. Great to have you with us.

 

MB

[private mw]

nice pics :-)

[brown cow]

Hi to EKA,

 

Welcome, I also loved the snaps.

 

By the way I have a shed that may need moving one day, trouble is I'm in Australia!

 

regards

 

Andrew

[EKA_Wrecker]

Hi,

 

Thanks Brown Cow, someday I'll get "down-under." I recall seeing pics of Mack DM/RM 6x6s being used in the services down there. Do they still use them? Over here a front drive-axle Mack is pretty rare and you only see them on some concrete transit and snow removal chassis.

 

After reading :coffee: the Scammell Crusader Wrecker User Handbook (pamphlet is more like it ) it struck me how vague and short the information was compared to a US Ops Manual. I must be spoiled rotten by US manuals. I guess you guys assume that anyone that is going to operate a medium/heavy wrecker in the services already has some prior experience in the field. The US Army etc. on the other hand, assumes that the person reading the manual has absolutely no experience in what they are studying so they contain extensive detailed descriptions/diagrams/pictures about a vehicle's/equipment's systems and operations :readbook: . I'm going to dive deeper for parts/service manuals and I realize that I'm probably going to have to purchase them in hardcopy.

 

 

Okay here's some more pics...

 

So here we are double parked in Midtown Manhattan on Veteran's Day last year for a pitstop before heading down near the Flatiron Building to the parade marshalling area. It proves that you can indeed fit a Ferret and an M20 on my trailer with inches to spare.

 

 

Here's a lift tow with the Tractor-Wrecker:

 

 

I'm hauling a friends Mack with the Deuce:

[stevenivers]

Welcome aboard

[cosrec]

After reading :coffee: the Scammell Crusader Wrecker User Handbook (pamphlet is more like it ) it struck me how vague and short the information was compared to a US Ops Manual. I must be spoiled rotten by US manuals. I guess you guys assume that anyone that is going to operate a medium/heavy wrecker in the services already has some prior experience in the field. The US Army etc. on the other hand, assumes that the person reading the manual has absolutely no experience in what they are studying so they contain extensive detailed descriptions/diagrams/pictures about a vehicle's/equipment's systems and operations :readbook: . I'm going to dive deeper for parts/service manuals and I realize that I'm probably going to have to purchase them in hardcopy.

 

 

I find even the hard copy is very basic information. hand books are available for all vehicles and different operations they carry out but very very little seems to get published to the web. i supose this is down to crown copyright on the info ????? i dont know.

I think the british forces seem to do more intensive class room training regards the vehicles they are given and the tasks they are required to do with them hence the less litriture that is published as i dont think thought is put in to the the vehicles coming into public hands. Again i dont know for sure as i have no milatry back ground.

 

All that said what do you want to know if its as your name suggests EKA gear i may be able piont you in the right direction other people on this site will certainly be able to answer most questions you throw their way

[EKA_Wrecker]

Hi,

 

Upon re-reading that .pdf I realized that its missing half the pages (37 instead of the full 70+) :blush: So my observations and previous statement might not be so accurate. I did just purchase two User Handbooks for the Scammell Crusader and Foden Wrecker so it's a start.

 

Thank you for the offer of your insight Cosrec, as I see from my initial reading through the forum that you have extensive experience on the subject to say the least. I don't know what it is about the Foden and Scammell; it just seems from an American Standpoint that they are much closer to an ideal field/road wrecker than their US counterpart at that time period (1970s/80s.) The standard US wreckers carry the same recovery bodies from the 50s to this day with minor modifications (M936 comes to mind.) Only recently has the US TACOM looked at adopting some "commercial" design ideas. The Oshkosh MTVR Wrecker is one example.

 

Wrestling with manual outriggers, hauling heavy recovery gear to and from uncovered storage areas 4.5' in the air, and having to install scotch anchors manually for winching is what made me look at other countries for some design ideas.

 

I guess my first question about the Foden's EKA gear would be about the underlift. I see that is "dead" meaning the crane booms hydraulic cylinders is used to lift the underlift to a desired height and secured/supported with large pins. I like the idea of the pins as they are a simple and secure method of retaining height/position instead of relying on the hydraulic cylinder's and holding valves. Now the question(s)...

 

1.) Is the underlift boom designed to have any angular adjustment under load or is it only lowered against the steel "stops"?

 

2.) Related to the first... Have you ever encountered a scenario in which you wanted the boom to remain parallel to the ground during a lift tow? (for example when overall vehicle height is a problem)

 

3.) What is the distance approx. from retracted to extended of the underlift?

 

I only ask these initially as they don't jump out at me. I don't want to pester with a million questions that can be easily answered by research/observation. Thanks for your time/knowledge.

Edited August 13, 2012 by EKA_Wrecker
Added Picture of MTVR

[cosrec]

I guess my first question about the Foden's EKA gear would be about the underlift. I see that is "dead" meaning the crane booms hydraulic cylinders is used to lift the underlift to a desired height and secured/supported with large pins. I like the idea of the pins as they are a simple and secure method of retaining height/position instead of relying on the hydraulic cylinder's and holding valves. Now the question(s)...

 

1.) Is the underlift boom designed to have any angular adjustment under load or is it only lowered against the steel "stops"?

 

2.) Related to the first... Have you ever encountered a scenario in which you wanted the boom to remain parallel to the ground during a lift tow? (for example when overall vehicle height is a problem)

 

3.) What is the distance approx. from retracted to extended of the underlift?

 

(1) The boom on the Foden has no angular adjustment (tilt) provision

 

(2) In a role as a recovery vehicle for suspend tow on modern civillian vehicles it is virtually essential to have a tilt provision.

(3) From base of foot retracted approx 52" extended 72" to centre of T head.

 

To explain further above answers. Originally all vehicles were suspend towed by lifting on a strong part of chassis then spaced apart with a bars. This was ample for earlier vehicles. In europe moreso than the US civillian vehicles developed in the fact they became lower and with increasingly more fragile body work. Army vehicles continued to be built like brick sh** houses Enter on the scene the the swedes with their underlift vehiles. Using their underlift booms and range of lifting forks modern civillian vehicles were easily handled with no damage by lifting on axles and chassis rails. They became an instant hit overnight in europe and about ten years later in the US among civillian operaters. In an attempt to increase sales demo trucks were supplyed to various armies for evaluation. They found favour with armies in europe and malaysia. The truth is i think this was more to do with the powerful main winch hydraulic rear legs and ease of set than the underlift facility. As the years have moved on civillian is almost 100% suspend towed in true form by the axles chassis. Milatry vehicles continued to be suspend tow with an underlift but using it as an A bar from strong pionts at the extreme front or rear of vehicle

So how good the milatry eka is depends on which role it being used in

Edited August 19, 2012 by cosrec

[cosrec]

Over the years we have had many civillian underlifts. I have also modified milatry underlifts for use on civillian vehicles. These mods are relativly simple and noway stop them being used as the milatry do.

[EKA_Wrecker]

Hi,

 

Thank you for those answers as to the operation of the underlift. From my photo collection it seems that despite not having a tilt function, the EKA underlift does pretty good for its application. As you say, they saved some weight and complexity by not having more cylinders/controls etc. for a tilt option when most of the time they would be utilizing the front shackle/lift points of various Mil. trucks.

 

I saw the modification of the Foden's underlift boom you undertook... excellent job! :thumbsup:

 

I'm debating in my head what's better; a hydraulic towbar like on the EKA MAN/HEMTT & MTVR wrecker or.... an underlift. Some operators say that an underlift gets in the way but it can also be used like an old fashioned towbar and is more versatile. Just thinking out loud...

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Okay. One more question about the Foden EKA Wrecker body/equipment if you and everyone else don't mind. See attached photos below. What is this piece of equipment called and what is it used for? :confused: (besides being a mechanical securement of the winching spades during travel as seen in one photo) I see that it has the same two-pin securement as the pintle hitch attachment that goes on the lower "tailboard." What are it's other uses?

 

 

Thanks again.

[cosrec]

Confess i do not know. I hope recymech66 will come along and enlighten us both. When the Fodens are demobbed they are usually robbed of all their kit first by the units operating them then by the agents who sell them on behalf of the MOD. Hence that and lack of manuals i have never seen them before.

Regards which is best underlift V lifting A bar i would go for underlift every time for all uses the underlift can carry out all the functions of the lifting A bar plus many it cannot.

[EKA_Wrecker]

Hi,

 

I understand about the pilfering CosRec, the same thing happens over here. It's very rare to get a wrecker (or any truck) with all its BII. I'll ask the above question (and future questions) in the wrecker/transporter forum, maybe more members will see it there and it seems a more appropriate place. Thanks again for your input. I'm still waiting on those Ops manuals, I can't wait to sink my teeth into them :readbook: there probably sitting over here at a terminal... See you guys over in the wrecker forum! :wave: