bobgourami Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi Guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and I'm hoping somebody will be be able to help me My friend has recently bought a series 2a Land Rover. Knowing I'm interested in military vehicles he's asked me if I could find out a little about it. It has a military data plate on the dash with a registration and serial stamped into it. 40 AM 91 Serial: 2518514G. Having done a little research I think that this registration would make it an ex RAF vehicle and the G suffix a build date of 69-70? It has smoke dischargers and wing mounted aerials. Any idea what it was originally used for? Would this have been its military configuration? I typed its current civilian registration into Google and found this older picture of the actual vehicle.... I don't know how long ago it was taken. It looks like it might be at a show. Does anybody here have any information on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi there, definatly ex RAF, but those wing mounted aerials and smoke dischargers are a post demob additions. Welcome to the forum Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgourami Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the reply. I own a Jeep so I'm not that knowledgable about British vehicles but I wasn't sure about the wing mounted aerials and smoke dischargers as I couldn't find any photographic evidence of these particular mountings on 70's Land Rovers? It'd be interesting to find out if the owners of it in the older photograph fitted them to recreate a particular vehicle? Do you think that the blue lights fitted to it in the old photo might be original? My friend said that he was told that it was originally 24v and had twin fuel tanks. Does this sound right? Edited October 12, 2011 by bobgourami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 If the nomenclature plate is extant, then the NSN & Contract No. should reveal a bit (what it was built as - FFR / GS + possibly the RAF role). The RAF museum normally makes no charge for a history search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgourami Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks for the info. I took a quick picture of the data plate. It was a bit obscured by paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XWDV8 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 not shore but i think the smoke dischargers must not have the wire inside, if they do its a gun:nut: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) The Contract No. WV92?? Can you clean this up please and advise. Strange that it is a Rover 11 with "Car" - this is normally a Station Wagen. And the fact that it is 10 cwt (normally a 88") All the 16A Ref. on 3039 are RN ar Army The exception being 3039 that is RAF seems to be Truck Utility, 109" FFR WV9214 it is on NSN 2320-99-806-2530 ----- At odd times - RAF Rovers were taken from Army Contracts and re-plated. Edited October 12, 2011 by ruxy amd. WV9241 to WV.9214 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozzaboy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Looks similar to a vehicle I owned until about 2 years ago, that was a ex RAF late 2a landrover like that, but the plate said something like "24 volt GS HARDTOP" so could be from the same contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozzaboy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Not a lot to add I'm afraid but here it is http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?8241-raf-rover-11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 A Rover 11 , 109" with hardtop (ex-Solihull) , would probably be VAN GENERAL SERVICE , 109" FFR The S2 & S2A up to the start of Rover 10 & 11 , there seems only a single chassis No. with the designation VAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 16A/3039 is the RAF Vocab Ref for Asset Code No. 1720-0766 which equates to Truck, GS, FFR, 3/4 Ton, Rover 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volvoc303 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 looks very civi in first photo side filler tank headlights civi cant see oil cooler could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 It could effectively be a CL (accounting for the front side fill) , Rover 11 there were many unusual contracts. That would account for the capacity of only 1/2 ton , the military would do this as it would not have HD springs & shocks. A better front view would show if a "Combat Chassis" with extended spring hangers. I don't think it is a "Walt" because that nomenclature plate looks too genuine , I doubt if Walter would go to the trouble of arranging a complex anodized one off fake , slapping on IRR to distress - or would he LoL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgourami Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Thanks for all the help guys. To answer a few questions. The side fuel filler was added when the original tanks were removed. The top is also a more recent addition. I'll get him to clean off the data plate a little to get a bit more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgourami Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 here's a new pic of the cleaned up data plate I hope this helps identifying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 OK - locked on. See my earlier post :- ----------------------------------- ruxy Re: Land Rover Series 2a information The Contract No. WV92?? Can you clean this up please and advise. Strange that it is a Rover 11 with "Car" - this is normally a Station Wagen. And the fact that it is 10 cwt (normally a 88") All the 16A Ref. on 3039 are RN ar Army The exception being 3039 that is RAF seems to be Truck Utility, 109" FFR WV9214 it is on NSN 2320-99-806-2530 -------------------------------------- Confirms my earlier post , defo. a RAF Contract but prior to Tri-Service it is known that vehicles at odd times move service (often involving modifications that should involve a change to N.S.N. - however it is known that nomenclature plates were not amd. by instructions (for example "winterization" ). =================== Ref. Clives comment :- fv1609 Re: Land Rover Series 2a information 16A/3039 is the RAF Vocab Ref for Asset Code No. 1720-0766 which equates to Truck, GS, FFR, 3/4 Ton, Rover 11 ------------ The above does state 3/4 ton. I suppose a error could have been made at anodising plate manufacture / Strange , possibly if Clive could find a bit more info. on the N.S.N. Then it may be worth spending a bit of time on research of the factory build spec. but that would be hard going without a few starting clues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I searched for the NSN that gave me the Asset Code No., but curiously it didn't give any RAF Vocab Ref like it will do for RAF items. I looked up the Asset Code No. to get the nomenclature & that indeed does tie in with the ISPL Rover 10 & 11 with the WV Contract on the plate. I have AP2782E which is the Data Book of RAF Vehicles. Unfortunately it is too early for Rover 11, but it does give Rover 2, 3 & 6. These are 'Trucks' & defined as '1/2 Ton' not '10 cwt'. In the same publications under 'Cars' where a weight rating is given it is defined in terms of 'cwt' not 'tons'. So Cars in cwt & Trucks in tons? Even so it doesn't explain the rating of 10 cwt rather than 15 cwt. But perhaps that was the RAF defining the role or requirement it was fulfilling rather than its maximum payload? I think Ted would be the man to help us with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Typical Series , 109" Station Wagen Maximum approved Payload 10 persons and 400 lb. (reduced only 200 lb cross-country) * Maximum loads for cross-country when heavy duty springs are fitted. Above from a civilian User Book. ---------------- Normally you allow 150 lb / person. ---------------- It seems to me this was a RAF way of doing things at the time, you take a Utility , class it as a FFR and assume it will always remain equipped as such , and then deduct the weight of a typical battery box & selection selection of kit , then advise what weight you can put in the rest of the tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgourami Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Hi Guys, thanks for all the help. I just got the information back from the RAF museum in the form of a PDF of the vehicles registration card. If I've deciphered the info contained correctly: It was delivered to CVD Ashchurch 10.7.70 then wasn't recieved by a unit until 1974 (why the 4 year gap?), It was a tow vehicle for a rapier launch system, fitted with radar P31. it was attached to 27 Squadron, based at RAF North Luffenham 9.7.74 What would this configuration have looked like? After being based at Leuchers then Aldergrove it was "Converted to AVC 1720.0766" in 1977.... what does this mean? The entry after this I think says; "S.O. VSD Holywood N.I. Local DISP 31.3.82"? The last entry is for Ruddington 17.5.82 Again, any help would be great! 3067_001.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The "B" Card - has N.S.N. changes. Obviously a specialist adapted vehicle at one time. Would the RAF have a Station Wagen body fitted & then removed ?? It was built as FFR - of that I have no doubt. However CAR does IMHO always indicate Station wagen - it would be interesting to see if it was built on a Station Wagen chassis or a military FFR chassis. Rover 11's are rare to survive, RAF probably even rarer , 41 AM 30 is near to the one you are researching (39 vehicles off possibly) for your friend - so time to read all this :- http://forum.emlra.org/viewtopic.php?p=64232&highlight=#64232 ISTR GAVFOZ advised me that 41 AM 30 was built and nomenclature plated as VAN UTILITY , this would be very, very, very, rare for Army (1 only ever it seems). Possibly more photographs of all details inc. front & rear of chassis would help, probably best if your were to consult / compare notes with GAVFOZ.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) What would this configuration have looked like? There are some examples in here: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?27143-Land-Rovers-that-fire-missiles! After being based at Leuchers then Aldergrove it was "Converted to AVC 1720.0766" in 1977.... what does this mean? 16A/3039 is the RAF Vocab Ref for Asset Code No. 1720-0766 which equates to Truck, GS, FFR, 3/4 Ton, Rover 11 This "conversion" is only taking it back to what it was originally. The NSN is not given but the Asset Code 1720 19 1777 makes no sense (to me) as in 1964 Asset Codes became 4 + 4 digits displacing the earlier 6 + 2 + 3 digits. As it happens I have in front of me DCI (RAF) 1972 which lists all RAF MT with their Asset Codes. It confirms the description given above & indeed agrees with the record card. I see it gives the capital replacement cost as £1,555. It lists a number of Trucks, Utility that includes Rover 1 to Rover 11. Interestingly it also lists Cars, Utility These include Rover 9/2, Rover 10 & Rover II. I suspect there are various typos. As I think last type should read Rover 11 & in the Utility section it includes Series 1A & Series 11A. So there were 7 types of Rover designated Car, Utility & 31 Trucks, Utility including 4 which are CL models. Edited November 15, 2011 by fv1609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) To QUOTE Clive (above) regarding pricing £ :- I see it gives the capital replacement cost as £1,555. -------------- To put the above into perspective , a perusal of the Brooklands Books , on the Land-Rover giving the "Autotest" re-prints. The basic price was £1115 , with seat-belts, licence , number plates - the Total on the road price of a 6 cylinder , 12 seater S2A station wagon was £1157 (Jan. 1973). At this time the Total on the road price for a 88" utility(full soft-top) was £1157 (Extras such as heater, sun vizors. trailer socket etc. were of course extra).. The MOD would have a advantageous Contract price - seems they did pay for extra work, extras, that would be much more than FFR.. Edited November 16, 2011 by ruxy 2 qty. - ,, added to eliminate ePay hijacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 To QUOTE Clive (above) regarding pricing £ :- I see it gives the capital replacement cost as £1,555. -------------- To put the above into perspective , a perusal of the Brooklands Books , on the Land-Rover giving the "Autotest" re-prints. The basic price was £1115 , with seat-belts, licence , number plates - the Total on the road price of a 6 cylinder , 12 seater S2A station wagon was £1157 (Jan. 1973). At this time the Total on the road price for a 88" utility(full soft-top) was £1157 (Extras such as heater, sun vizors. trailer socket etc. were of course extra).. The MOD would have a advantageous Contract price - seems they did pay for extra work, extras, that would be much more than FFR.. 1973 vehicles would have been S111 not S11A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Yes , I misquoted it all wrong , in a hurry. I was after prices to compare to Rover 11's (the last military S2A 109") From October 7th 1971 "Autocar" on the new Series 3 :- 109" 4 cy. petrol Utility £1,185 -do- 6 cyl. £1,263 -do 12 seat Stn. Wgn. petrol £1,463 (the above prices must be basic) ------- There was quite a long overun of S2A / S3 production. Last S2A about April 1972 First S3 production Nov. 1970 , well before launch & not pre-pro apparently.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hi Ruxy, I took delivery of a new 88" S111 diesel truck cab with a rear canvas and bonnet mounted spare wheel on 1st Jan 1972, it cost me just over £1200. Big mistake, I had ordered a soft top petrol around July/August of '71 and been quoted 10 months delivery so when the local main dealer rang me just after Christmas and offered this vehicle I accepted. As I said big mistake, the only good thing was because of the demand I traded it in when it was about 16mths old and got my money back. A few months after I found a 1964 soft top petrol which cost me £450 which was quite expensive at the time but was the best Series motor I ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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