question WW1 Tanks in the Twenties

[jchinuk]

I found the attached photo in the dark recesses of the internet,

 

 

The caption reads,

 

"The crew of a German tank surrendering to the crew of a British tank in a scene from a British film shot in Dorset, England. (Photo by E. Bacon/Topical Press Agency/Getty Images). 14th December 1927"

 

I think the A7V is a mock-up (if not, the caption suggests an A7V survived longer than I thought) and I assume the British tank is from the collection that became the tank museum at Bovington. I looked on Getty's site and there are no related photos.

 

Does anyone have any idea of the name of the film?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

jch

[steveo578]

Don't know the film,

 

The "A7V" is a mock up and not a particular good one -the ends are wider that the centre section where the drivers/commanders station is located. MkVs were still a viable tank at the time (1927) in fact the War Office were still considering alternative uses for them -RE tanks and ARVs were considered and France still had some as front line tanks, one of the Baltic States had one or two.

 

Oddly enough a very good "mock up" A7V was displayed in a German exhibition in the late 1920s early 1930s -it is good enough to speculate that it is not a mock up -that one had survived the disarmament commision axe.

[jchinuk]

 

I think the A7V is a mock-up (if not, the caption suggests an A7V survived longer than I thought) and I assume the British tank is from the collection that became the tank museum at Bovington. I looked on Getty's site and there are no related photos.

 

Does anyone have any idea of the name of the film?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

jch

 

Thanks for the info

 

I have found out that the British tank is the Mark V in the TM to this day, though with a rather more adventurous paint job.

 

jch

[woa2]

I remember reading about a German A7V tank being broken up for scrap in 1940 in this country, bit of a propaganda item as well as the scrap drive. Anyone help with details of this? I think it was in an 'Illustrated London News' but I can't be sure.

[Mike C]

Gents,

 

The only surviving A7V is 'Mephisto', part of the Australian War Memorial's (AWM) collection, housed and on display at the Queensland Museum in Brisbane, Australia (the Queenslanders think it is 'theirs' by default, but the ownership claim is questionable!!). It arrived at the end of WW1 (so is not the one in the image, which I agree, looks like a mock-up)

 

The Qld Museum published an excellent book on Mephisto by Mark Whitmore (now of the IWM) which is probably still available from their bookshop.

 

The AWM has a very nice MkIV Female that arrived in Australia in July 1918.

 

Mike C

[steveo578]

AFAIK the only A7Vs to be recovered to UK were an unarmoured cargo carrier and two A7V called Hagen and Schnuck. Both tanks were brought to London were Hagen was put on display on Horse Guards during 1919 -its fate is unknown. Schnuck went to IWM then at Crystal Palace and it and a good number of tanks and AFVs were displayed until 1920 when IWM moved to its present site -the tanks thought to be of no value were cut up in the grounds of Crystal Palace, Schnuck was even photographed being broken up and the photo reproduced in a London newspaper.

 

The unarmoured cargo carrier went to Aldershot and was never seen again, so probably scrapped or targeted.

 

Of the others known to be captured Herkules was testedd and disposed of in France. Elfreide went to Paris -fate unknown. Nike II to APG and survived probably until 1940. Mephisto to Australia and is now the only survivor.

 

Several A7V were located in Germany and survived until the early 1920 when the disarmament commision had them scrapped -included were 2 signal tanks completed as riot control tanks and were used to put down communist uprising in Berlin, Liepzig and Halle

[Tony B]

Question: When were the MkIV decleared obsolesent/obsolete?

[Tankmanc]

A possible contender for the film is "The Somme". Not the 1916 one, but the 1927 one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0018426/

 

Footage of Mk V tanks shot for this film regularly appears in documentaries. The battle scenes were shot in Dorset or on Salisbury Plain, depending on whom you believe. http://www.south-central-media.co.uk/prodnhistory.htm

 

On the other hand, a sequence-by-sequence synopsis of "The Somme" makes no mention of a confrontation with a German A7V. What's more, the Mk Vs in it appear to be in their WWI colour scheme, which was an overall dull brown. The Mk V in the photo has a very much post-WWI camo scheme, which leads me to doubt that it's from the same film.

 

All of Germany's 20 A7Vs were accounted for. With two exceptions, they were scrapped by the early 20s. Mephisto is, indeed, in Brisbane, and Nixe II was taken to the USA for testing and was eventually shot to pieces for target practice (by 1942, I think). None was used by Poland - that's a myth. The A7V in the photo is clearly a replica.

 

That's the best I can do. I realise I haven't answered the original question, but I'm still digging.

 

Regards.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Tankmanc

[Tankmanc]

Question: When were the MkIV decleared obsolesent/obsolete?

 

At the end of WWI. It had already been overtaken by the more manoeuvrable Mk V (which had a single driver instead of a driver and two gearsmen) and the Mk V*, and new types were in the pipeline. Many Mk IVs were distributed round Britain (and a few in France) as Presentation Tanks, i.e. put on display as monuments, and most were scrapped when the novelty wore off in the 1920s and 30s. One was restored in Portsmouth in 1939 (using parts from another survivor), but it only made a couple of sallies, damaged a car, and was left to rust at Whale Island.

 

Some Mk Vs served after the War, with the British Army in occupied parts of Germany, and with the White Russian Forces, the Red Army, and Estonia and Latvia (IIRC), but they all fell into disuse by the early 30s.

 

Hope this helps.

[Pzkpfw-e]

Two were displayed in Paris, along with a number of artillery pieces (Including a "Big Bertha"). These were scrapped in the early 20s.

 

[Tankmanc]

We have got close to sorting this one out. http://63528.activeboard.com/t49126412/id-this-mk-v-and-whats-going-on/ Thanks for putting us onto it. A great find.

 

Have you come across a copy of this photo without the Getty watermark?