Running Char B1 bis in the UK?

[ajmac]

Perhaps 'running' is going a bit far, is there even more than the one at Bovington? Impressive vehicle to look at and some posative reports back in 1940 against the PzIII and 38t.

[JoelH]

Just thought I could shed a little light onto the situation:

 

Surviving exemplars From Wikipedia

 

Today eleven vehicles survive, one Char B1 and ten Char B1 bis.[3]

 

The last surviving Char B1 can be seen at the "Association pour la Sauvegarde du Patrimoine Historique et Militaire" (ASPHM), near Strasbourg, in France. It was previously at the Fort de Seclin. It is in a bad condition, with parts like the main gun missing. It was salvaged from a firing range, but will be restored by the owner. Ten Char B1 bis can be seen in various places in Great Britain and in France :

 

 

• A vehicle at the Bovington Tank Museum, England. It was modified for German service as the B2 variant.
  
• Three are in the Musée des Blindés in Saumur, France. One, Flandres, is in running condition, another, Rhône, is in permanent display in the museum. A third, a mine roller tank, is in storage.
  
• A vehicle serving as a monument in the town of Stonne, France, where during the Battle of France 3 DCR fought with 10 PD.
  
• Three are owned by the ASPHM, which bought one of them at the same time as the B1, from the Fort de Seclin. This B1 bis is also in a bad condition, with parts, including the main gun, missing. Salvaged from a firing range, it is intended for restoration by the owner. The two others were acquired in 2009 and are very badly damaged.[4] They will most likely be used as "organ donors" in order to restore the B1 and one of the B1 bis. One of the two B1 bis wrecks was identified as being n° 243 Intrépide, which belonged to 8th BCC and was put out of combat on 1 June 1940, at Moreuil.[5]
  
• Two are on display at the 501st-503rd Tank Regiment at Mourmelon-le-Grand, France. One of these tanks was previously on display at the ERGMEB, Gien.
  

 

 

However, there is a:

Hotchkiss H 39 – Kevin Wheatcroft Collection (UK)

Edited March 10, 2011 by JoelH

[steveo578]

I thought the Bovington B1 Bis was out on loan - has it come home? Alastair you might have "merged" the Bovington Somua S35 medium into thinking that there are 2 Char b1bis -they do have the same turret.

 

there is also a B1 or B1 bis 75mm gun gun at Bovington probably was recovered from the Tog 1 prototype at some stage.

 

Steve

Edited March 10, 2011 by steveo578
addition gun

[ajmac]

I thought the Bovington B1 Bis was out on loan - has it come home?

I thought there was only one Char B1 at Bovington, it was only my slip shod sentance construction that made you think otherwise! On loan to who? This needs to go onto the 'Tank Museum' part of HMVF for further investigation.... they will wish they never joined, too many questions to answer :-D

[steveo578]

I thought it had gone a Chanel Islands museum while the building work was going on at Bovington but i could be wrong.

[Tony B]

Yes, the Char B was displayed at HO8 The Jersey War Tunnels, or as the rest of us call it The Underground Hospital. It has now been returned. Without checking the books ten were sent to the Islands. Some were modified to SPG's and three were flame throwers. Various turrets were mounted on bunkers in the Island's.

[mash]

Yes, the Char B was displayed at HO8 The Jersey War Tunnels, or as the rest of us call it The Underground Hospital. It has now been returned. Without checking the books ten were sent to the Islands. Some were modified to SPG's and three were flame throwers. Various turrets were mounted on bunkers in the Island's.

 

 

Guernsey had 2 x command version

12 x normal

5 x flame-throwers

 

Jersey had 12 x normal

5 x flame-throwers

[Tony B]

Possibly one still in Gurnersey under St John's somewhere.

[mash]

Possibly one still in Gurnersey under St John's somewhere.

 

Have heard rumors, still have heard of a lot of rumors of various kit still sitting in bunkers/tunnels all over the C.I's

[Tony B]

Mash, most are rumours and wishful thinking. This one though is under investigation.

Found these photos.

[Tony B]

I think the second one is at the back of what is now Quennavais Parade. Near the Railway Walk.

[mash]

I'll agree with you there Tony. I have had some first had stories, but once you question and dig a little deeper, the weapons cache turns into a few rifles then the rifles turn into one rifle and then that turns out to be a rusty bolt assy with a missing barrel and no stock.

[mash]

The top picture is of a Renault 35 tank chassis with a 5cm SP gun, i have both of those pics in a book but it doesn't give a location for either.

[tartan-ninja]

I,m about 90% sure there is a Hulk on the ranges at La Courtine......not on the AT range but in one of the forests, my battery was out in my camera, but saw it large as life.

[steveo578]

Tony B

Yes, the Char B was displayed at HO8 The Jersey War Tunnels, or as the rest of us call it The Underground Hospital. It has now been returned. Without checking the books ten were sent to the Islands. Some were modified to SPG's and three were flame throwers.

 

thanks for that tony -it saves me looking through back copies of track link for the reference, I think apart from the flame thrower version of the Char Bi bis the other B1 bis were standard battle tanks -the SPGs on the Channel Island were the Renault type the 4.7pak (t)auf Panzerjaeger Renault R35(f) -(it makes you wonder how the Germans managed anything with the convoluted designations) as shown in the Ist picture. while it's not impossible that something may still be knocking around in a deep tunnel or whatever -it is thought that the majority of the Renault SPGs were dumped off the open ramp of a LCT into the waters off the north coast of Jersey. There was some talk about the time when the guns were pulled up the cliffs at Les Landes? that some diver had found a "tiger tank" (well it always is) with a huge cannon pointing upward to the surface.

 

Steve

[Tony B]

I'll agree with you there Tony. I have had some first had stories, but once you question and dig a little deeper, the weapons cache turns into a few rifles then the rifles turn into one rifle and then that turns out to be a rusty bolt assy with a missing barrel and no stock.

The story came from a reliable Gurnersey Occupation scource. The intial clue was from the actual person who drove the vehicle into the tunnel. Trouble is you know the sort of polotics little rocks generate. The last reliable report I had was that negotioations were in progres to do a thourgh survey of the area.

 

Steve, most stuff was dumped in Hurd's Deep, which is north east of Alderney. Amongst other things down there is the J class Yacht Westwind, formerly belonging to Tom Davis. Major Seargent, took photos of his operations, with Ward La France's dumping guns over Les Landes. CIOS Jersey have recoverd some. An enormous job, I have photos of the kit Martin Garnier and the guys used to get them up.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Tony B

[diver99]

most stuff was dumped in Hurd's Deep, which is north east of Alderney. Amongst other things down there is the J class Yacht Westwind, formerly belonging to Tom Davis. Major Seargent, took photos of his operations, with Ward La France's dumping guns over Les Landes. .

 

 

Sounds like the plot for a Clive Cussler Novel.

[diver99]

I thought it had gone a Chanel Islands museum while the building work was going on at Bovington but i could be wrong.

 

Your not wrong, the Char came back when building was complete. It had been originally used by the Germans on the Island so had some relevence.

 

There is a Kubelwagon in air-con storage held by the Guernsey war tunnels trust/museum.

[ford 369]

as Tony says rumours of hoards of equipment hidden in tunnels in the channel islands are long out of date ,the tunnels did contain plenty but it was mostly cleared years ago mainly for scrap although some was sold as souvenirs there was some stuff left in Guernsey until more recent times but I beleive most of this was cleared by Richard Heaume of the occupation museum several years ago there are however some rumours that a tank may be left in a tunnel under a church and it is beleived that some feid pieces may still be in tunnels but hidden behind rockfalls caused by army demolition charges

[steveo578]

ford 369

I beleive most of this was cleared by Richard Heaume of the occupation museum several years ago there are however some rumours that a tank may be left in a tunnel under a church

 

I've been in the tunnel under the Church in Guernsey(indeed the church is named "sur l'eglise" but that has nothing to do with the tunnel) on several occasions in the 1960s and 1970s -it was always wet and the only field item that I saw was a small field kitchen -the type drawn by a mule -because of the amount of water bits and pieces such as personel harneses were well decayed certainly not worth recovery.

 

Steve

[eddy8men]

what's this about a range wreck at la courtine, can anyone shed some light on the french range targets, i know there's some nice stuff still on those areas.

 

eddy

[ford 369]

I've been in the tunnel under the Church in Guernsey(indeed the church is named "sur l'eglise" but that has nothing to do with the tunnel) on several occasions in the 1960s and 1970s -it was always wet and the only field item that I saw was a small field kitchen -the type drawn by a mule -because of the amount of water bits and pieces such as personel harneses were well decayed certainly not worth recovery.

 

Steve

 

I seem to remember that the feild kitchen was one of the items recovered and is now on display in the museum

[ford 369]

what's this about a range wreck at la courtine, can anyone shed some light on the french range targets, i know there's some nice stuff still on those areas.

 

eddy

 

the French range targets were discussed a while back and I think the general feeling was that the stuff is there but the French authorities were impossible to deal with,but its still got to be worth a try

[diver99]

Here's a couple of modern at the La Courtine.

 

 

 

[diver99]

 

And a couple more;