gritineye Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Do you need an H license to drive a halftrack? I seem to remember one was only needed if the vehicle is steered by its tracks, (skid steer) but can't find any reference to it any where now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 You are right but I too am finding it hard to provide a link BV202 etc does not need H licence because it steers on an articulated link between front and rear cars. H licence only needed if steered by its tracks. Of passing interest this from DVLA minimum test vehicle standards regarding suitable vehicle for taking H licence test in. Category H "To drive a tracked vehicle you will need to hold a full category B (car) licence. Any vehicle used for category H tests must have adequate all-round visibility to enable the driver to carry out manoeuvres and deal with junctions safely. Any vehicle requiring a second person to help with observation, such as a military vehicle, is not suitable for test purposes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 You are right but I too am finding it hard to provide a link "To drive a tracked vehicle you will need to hold a full category B (car) licence. Any vehicle used for category H tests must have adequate all-round visibility to enable the driver to carry out manoeuvres and deal with junctions safely. Any vehicle requiring a second person to help with observation, such as a military vehicle, is not suitable for test purposes." How typically ridiculous of the DVLA! Not only did I get my licence through the Army by driving a 432 around the streets of Bordon and Portsmouth, but several of my friends who have no connection to the armed forces also gained their H cat through driving a 432 on the roads?? Even more daft is the fact that the same licence has been granted by manouvering a mini digger around a cone course in a field, never going on a road at all?? Where's the sense in that? Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 It's a get-out clause so the examiner can refuse to carry out the test if they are not happy with the vehicle presented. We did our tests in a Spartan on the public road with no concern expressed as to the suitability of the vehicle. More interestingly the quote states by implication that by definition [all tracked] military vehicles require a second person to help with observation. This is clearly not true: for example a CVRT has better driver visibility than a Transit. Final point - what do they mean by 'military vehicle'? 'H' license is a civilian designation: a civilian is very unlikely to be borrowing a current military vehicle for their 'H' test, so anyone taking an 'H' test will be in an ex-military vehicle (or mini digger etc.). These are registered as 'track-laying vehicles'. So there is no legal designation of 'military vehicle' to which this quote can even refer... - MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 All god input chaps but I feel we're straying way off topic way too early...:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Direct,gov site specifically says H licence is for vehicle "steered by its tracks". http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_180694 This produced with co-operation with DVLA http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1083722718&type=RESOURCES and if you want three answers saying the same try this http://www.transportsfriend.org/road/licence/category.html Assuming the half track is steered by its front pneumatic wheels (or wheel for a kettenkraftrad * but see later description of German half track steering) (or not steered effectively by its front wheels in the case of Centaur!!) then you don't need an H licence to drive it. Some German half-tracks used a more complex system whereby for shallow turns the front wheels alone steered the vehicle but to aid turning sharp turns braking was applied to one or other track to help the vehicle round. This leaves me in utter confusion as to which licence would be required to drive such a beast. But even so it is not steered just by its tracks (it is steered by its tracks and its wheels) so probably doesn't need H licence. Don't rely on that advice in court if you are caught driving a Sd.Kfz. without an H licence and some jobsworth decides you need one. Quote Wiki "The Sd.Kfz. 9 had a ladder frame chassis.........Both tracks and wheels were used for steering. The steering system was set up so that shallow turns used only the wheels, but brakes would be applied to the tracks the further the steering wheel was turned." unquote. *Even the Ketenkraftrad had track braking when the handlebars were turned beyond a certain point. This is why German half tracks were brilliant and things like the Matador- Valantine prototype and Cammel Laird Centaur were so much bin fodder.... The answer to the original question is therefore No, Yes or Maybe depending on which half track you wish to drive! (and the courts interpretation of "steered by its tracks") For a White etc, No. In the case of Centaur and Matador/Valentine both of which spent most of their time going straight ahead whatever the driver did with the steering wheel and the front wheels, I suppose you could say they were steered by their tracks, just not in the direction the driver wanted to go!!! Edited January 19, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTallMike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 ... I suppose you could say they were steered by their tracks, just not in the direction the driver wanted to go!!! :rotfl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) :thumbsup: Thanks for that Mike, very good answer that also covers just about all the the supplementary questions I had thought of overnight. I think I was using the wrong search terms, I was searching for "Tracked vehicle steered tracks" and such when I should have used "track laying" Edited January 19, 2011 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I searched on "steered by its tracks".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Have you got a set of track chains for Forceful then Bernard? :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Way more impressive and unusual than that...:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 I searched on "steered by its tracks".... Some folk seem to have the knack, experience in officialese helps no doubt.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrogg Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi, As it sounds like quite a grey area..as a suggestion why not just bite the bullet, pay the money and take the H cat test? Seems the most sensible option. I was having the same thoughts about my Bedford TM 4-4 with the Atlas crane...do i need a ticket to operate the crane? I couldnt find a definitive answer so to air on the side of caution i got myself booked on a course. Only costs a couple of hundred pounds but well worth it. Would certainly make things easier to sort out if god forbit something went wrong when doing a lift...cover your a*se!! Just my two penneth!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick garner Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I thought the definitive answer that you dont need an h-licience to drive a half track simply because the the steering is actuated by a steering wheel in most cases and full track is to actuate steering with levers. I thought an older style driving licience that also allows you to drive vehicles upto 7.5 tons was appropriate? Also, picking up a previous point, I would agree that observation in our sparten is possibly better than a transit but a big problem for me is exiting tight junctions where lateral vision is obscured by buildings or trees, in a car you would nose out carefully to improve vision, in the sparten, you've got 5 foot of metal in front of the driving position. left turns out of this sort of junction are bit dodgy too, if you address the junction at an angle like you would in a car, the view is obscured even more. However this problem may be worse for a shorty like myself. big sweeping junctions- no problem regards to all- mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) I thought the definitive answer that you dont need an h-licience to drive a half track simply because the the steering is actuated by a steering wheel in most cases and full track is to actuate steering with levers. I thought an older style driving licience that also allows you to drive vehicles upto 7.5 tons was appropriate? Also, picking up a previous point, I would agree that observation in our sparten is possibly better than a transit but a big problem for me is exiting tight junctions where lateral vision is obscured by buildings or trees, in a car you would nose out carefully to improve vision, in the sparten, you've got 5 foot of metal in front of the driving position. left turns out of this sort of junction are bit dodgy too, if you address the junction at an angle like you would in a car, the view is obscured even more. However this problem may be worse for a shorty like myself. big sweeping junctions- no problem mick Hi, As it sounds like quite a grey area..as a suggestion why not just bite the bullet, pay the money and take the H cat test? Not entirely correct. Bren carrier has steering wheel not levers, but steers by its tracks. Put simply, American half tracks, steers only by moving front wheels, No H licence required. (Centaur Matador halftrack Bedford QL half track also fall into this group) German Half tracks steer small turns using front wheels and tight turns using front wheels assisted by track braking so steering is by both wheels and tracks. Not sure of H licence position. BV202 and the like steer by an articulated link between the two cars. This is not viewed as steering by its tracks, no H licence required. (Case IH QuadTrac falls into this category) I.e. steering is achieved by altering the angle between the front pair of track, and the rear pair of tracks. (or altering where front hull points relative to back hull) Diggers, tracked cranes, Tanks, CVR(T) , Snowcat, FV432 series, Bren Carriers all steer by altering the relative speed of the tracks on one side compared to the other. These are truly steered by their tracks and require an H licence. Any vehicle with one pair of tracks where steering is by altering relative speed (whether it has a steering wheel or tiller, or two levers to pull back on and/ or foot brakes) needs an H licence. In my mind the only grey area is German Half Tracks using a combination of lorry (or Motorbike) type front Wheel / wheels and braked tracks. These may or may not need an H licence. Talk to DVLA about these, I don't know. Edited January 19, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 http://www.petersonholding.com/about/history_Quads.php Any don't ask me about this arrangement..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 A few of those would go down well at GDSF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 A few of those would go down well at GDSF! I wouldn't mind an example in my yard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Way more impressive and unusual than that...:cool2: Not one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Surely not one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim gray Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I thought the definitive answer that you dont need an h-licience to drive a half track simply because the the steering is actuated by a steering wheel in most cases and full track is to actuate steering with levers. I thought an older style driving licience that also allows you to drive vehicles upto 7.5 tons was appropriate?Also, picking up a previous point, I would agree that observation in our sparten is possibly better than a transit but a big problem for me is exiting tight junctions where lateral vision is obscured by buildings or trees, in a car you would nose out carefully to improve vision, in the sparten, you've got 5 foot of metal in front of the driving position. left turns out of this sort of junction are bit dodgy too, if you address the junction at an angle like you would in a car, the view is obscured even more. However this problem may be worse for a shorty like myself. big sweeping junctions- no problem regards to all- mick As stated above i would gather that a half track, where the track section has zero input to the steering effort would not require an H licence. It merely has rear tracks rather then wheels. They are bound however to be those that consider it a tracklaying vehicle( no escape on thaat one!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 As stated above i would gather that a half track, where the track section has zero input to the steering effort would not require an H licence. It merely has rear tracks rather then wheels. They are bound however to be those that consider it a tracklaying vehicle( no escape on thaat one!) Yes but the H licence is for a tracklaying vehicle, steered by its tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big ray Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 No H Licence required for driving a halftrack, some six wheel trucks have tracks that can be fitted when only one axle drives, effectively making the thing both four wheel drive at the rear, and a halftrack to boot............. what do you do then?, take an "H" test after you have fitted the tracks. :kissoncheek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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