Brass Monkies

[mike65]

As I live in Chesham which was supposed to be the coldest place (in the UK) Saturday night at -19.6C

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-12038023

This explains the ice on the car in the garage.

 

That and seeing some primates looking for welders it got me to thinking about the phrase

"Cold enougth to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" and its origin.

 

Have heard a few rumours that it is related to the old naval days of sail and how cannonballs used to be stored in a pyramid on an indented brass stand (the monkey).

 

This sounds quite good to me but seems to be debunked in several places. Maybe one for Mythbusters.

 

Anybody got any ideas.

 

Mike

[Degsy]

The story of the pyramid of cannonballs is totally wrong, they were not stored in this way for fairly obvious reasons but singly on wooden boards with appropriate sized holes.

It would appear that no definite origin has been found for the saying but if it does have a Naval origin then could be something to do with a cannon which was known as a brass monkey.

[andym]

This seems pretty definitive:

 

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/cold%20enough%20to%20freeze%20the%20balls%20off%20a%20brass%20monkey.html

 

I like the reference to CANOE at the end .... :cool2:

 

Andy

[mike65]

Degsy - I suspected that the triangular pile of balls on a ship would not be right after all you would need a very calm sea to keep them in place. Lets face it in a battle one good hit and there would be balls everywhere, regardless of temperature.

 

Following Andym's link and reading down it would appear that its origins could related back to the small brass cannons. With a bit of corruption an poetic license over the years.

 

Cheers guys, suspect we will never be100%

 

Mike

[Tony B]

There is also the observation 'Pawnbrockers are putting blankets over their signs!' :-D

Don't know if it only an English thing, but the traditional sign for a Pawnbrockers is three hanging brass balls aranged in an inverted triangle.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Tony B

[John Pearson]

Cannonballs were stored in pyramids in seige works or in forts but not on ships where they were in wooden depressions, not brass although they could be lifted from those by ice expanding under the ball: that would certainly be cold as it would be frozen sea water of course but makes no reference to brass or monkeys. Cannons were sometimes of brass but much more often iron and a 'monkey' is a Royal Marine isn't it?.

 

Maybe the expression means what it says? (Cold enough to freeze the gonads from a statue) but more polite society has changed it: polite people about to say sh*t say sh.....ugar! or Nelson was supposed to have become Turkish as the point of death saying 'Kismet' Hardy (thats the way it is then Hardy) instead of the scandalous 'Kiss me Hardy' that was widely reported at the time.

[Pzkpfw-e]

Cannons may be bronze, certainly not brass!

[ArtistsRifles]

I always thought the Navy used to store cannon balls on deck on rope gaskets or rings????

[John Pearson]

I always thought the Navy used to store cannon balls on deck on rope gaskets or rings????

That might be true as well but on HMS Victory they are wooden shelves against the side of the ship and around hatchways etc with round carved depressions in them, called 'garlands'.

[ferretfixer]

The story of the pyramid of cannonballs is totally wrong, they were not stored in this way for fairly obvious reasons but singly on wooden boards with appropriate sized holes.

It would appear that no definite origin has been found for the saying but if it does have a Naval origin then could be something to do with a cannon which was known as a brass monkey.

 

Cannons have a 'Ball' at the rear. This area is known as the cascabel, & terminates in a ball.

is it POSSIBLE with the reference to 'Brass Monkeys' (Correctly BRONZE in a Cannon) that it perhaps this 'end trim' item that is refered to? I suspect that the true meaning of refering to Primates Reproductive 'Equipment' is the original phrase. But that is only MY opinion. :nut:

[mash]

a 'monkey' is a Royal Marine isn't it?.

 

Don't know about the navy but in the army a monkey is a RMP royal military police.

[Tony B]

Never heard Marines called Monnkeys, most other things though. I thought the Marines of Nelsons times were known as 'Bulloucks, though through chinese whispers you could end up with the expression.