Cromwell

[R Cubed]

Let alone has anyone seen one fly?!?!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36167[/ATTACH]

 

Would it have been some kind of gully jumping trial, what sort of distance did it clear, who needs bridge layers now :cool2:

[Adrian Barrell]

This is the link to the original film of the flying Cromwell!

 

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=31371

[Enigma]

This is the link to the original film of the flying Cromwell!

 

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=31371

 

I guess some of the crew must have lost some teeth there.:shocked:

[abn deuce]

Thanks for finding the clip !

[AlienFTM]

The Cromwells shown on BoB, were representative of vehs from 11th Armoured Div's Armoured recce regt. A Sqn (my old Sqn) 15/19 Hussars who were attached to 506 PIR at the time.

 

11th AD was not directly committed in Market - Garden. Instead, it was in charge of securing the rignt flank of the operation. Attached to 8th Corps, it was moving on September 18. Progressing in two columns, it managed to reach the parachutists of the 101st airborne at Nuenen, on the 22nd, its engineers established a bridge on the Willemsvaart canal. The Division could then make an encircling movement around Helmond, forcing Germans to withdraw on the September 25th.

 

In the official history of 11 Armd Div, Market Garden get a mere footnote. It points out as Baz states that 11 Armd Div played no part in Market Garden except that 3 Tp A Sqn 15/19H were attached US 506 Parachute Infantry Regiment.

 

I have seen a website that claims the Brits portrayed in Band of Brothers were from 26 Hussars ... or 23 Dragoons ... or one of the other old high-number cavalry regiments restored for the duration of the war.

 

But if you watch the DVD and freeze it with the tank commander's head filling the screen, clear as you like through his goggles is what looks remarkably like a 15/19H officer-pattern sewn-on beret badge.

 

And if you look and the pictures on the sleeve, you'll see a Sherman bearing a British A Sqn triangle.

Edited October 31, 2010 by AlienFTM

[steveo578]

AlienFTM

And if you look and the pictures on the sleeve, you'll see a Sherman bearing a British A Sqn triangle.

 

And looking at Ralph Thompson book photo 56 shows a Challenger of 2trp A Squadron with soldiers of 101st airborne -which 506 infantry rgt was part of. -So unless there was a shortage of Challengers for 3trp probably no Shermans (17pdrs) at all

 

Steve

[AlienFTM]

And looking at Ralph Thompson book photo 56 shows a Challenger of 2trp A Squadron with soldiers of 101st airborne -which 506 infantry rgt was part of. -So unless there was a shortage of Challengers for 3trp probably no Shermans (17pdrs) at all

 

Steve

 

That's an entirely valid point. Bazz had already pointed out that 15/19H went through Holland in Cromwells: my point was that a troop from 15/19H was 11 Armd Div's sole contribution to Market Garden.

 

I refused to count rivets when watching Band of Brothers. In my book, they went as far as they could trying to make it look authentic. I could mention a long list of films that didn't go to so much trouble.

 

Ralphy Thompson is a damn good mukker, having been my troop sergeant in Omagh a lifetime ago. If you look for a picture of a troop sergeant in glasses inspecting a lance corporal in overalls with the Alanbrooke Barracks, Paderborn Sergeants' Mess in the background, I am pretty sure the back of the lance corporal's head is mine, from 1982, but it was a long time ago and I have never seen the back of my head in the flesh anyway.

 

;o)

[Bazz]

Markings on the Shermans in these section of BoB have the white 40 in black square which is 11 Armd Div HQ markings and 15/19H were Div Armd Recce Rgt which was white 45 on green/blue.

DIV PICS.doc

[mcspool]

I refused to count rivets when watching Band of Brothers. In my book, they went as far as they could trying to make it look authentic. I could mention a long list of films that didn't go to so much trouble.

 

I cannot agree more. You are a sad anorak if one is counting rivets watching such movies - they are not a documentary! Try to enjoy the story. The tanks and vehicles are only there to dress the set.

 

Off my soap box now.

[Richard Farrant]

Look what has arrived outside my workshop this weekend :-D

[Adrian Barrell]

I recognise those turret bins.......

[Richard Farrant]

I recognise those turret bins.......

 

Adrian, I guessed you had a hand in it :-)

[Adrian Barrell]

Fraid so! Made quite a bit for it in the end. More 'in the style of' rather than replica but the budget precluded the latter....

[Bazz]

Shame it's marked Guards Armoured and not 11th Armoured.

[antar]

Look what has arrived outside my workshop this weekend :-D

 

Any side views ? interested in what trailer it is sat on.

[Richard Farrant]

Any side views ? interested in what trailer it is sat on.

 

Hi John,

 

It is a four axle Nooteboom extending trailer.

[antar]

Hi John,

 

It is a four axle Nooteboom extending trailer.

 

Thanks Richard,

looks well, sad really I'm more interested in the trailer than the Tank.

 

John.

[antar]

What work are you doing on the tank ?

[Richard Farrant]

What work are you doing on the tank ?

 

None! It was in transit, by the company where I my workshop is. Not an unusual happening, just that Cromwells appear to be flavour of the month, so could not resist posting it

[ajmac]

Now come on, it is very un-sporting to post a lovely photo of a restored Cromwell and no one to give a few bit and bobs about it's history (I don't mean you Richard, as it was just passing). I PRESUME from the info sloshing around over the last few weeks that if it isn't Clive W's then it is an ex-Charioteer from Finland or a ex-Centaur Dozer. If that's the case could you explain how I tell.... Adrian?

 

Turret looks like it came from a range from the little nicks on the front plate.

 

Ok Eddy, the bar has been set, don't even think about rolling your Cromwell out until it looks as sharp as this one or even better in as good a condition as Adrians Sherman V looked at A&E 2010?

Edited November 8, 2010 by ajmac

[eddy8men]

alastair

i promise you my cromwell's will look just like that one (green) and when it comes to bars i need no advice, as i've been propping one up for years now

 

eddy

[Adrian Barrell]

It has recently been mentioned on here.......

[Adrian Barrell]

Now come on, it is very un-sporting to post a lovely photo of a restored Cromwell and no one to give a few bit and bobs about it's history (I don't mean you Richard, as it was just passing). I PRESUME from the info sloshing around over the last few weeks that if it isn't Clive W's then it is an ex-Charioteer from Finland or a ex-Centaur Dozer. If that's the case could you explain how I tell.... Adrian?

 

Turret looks like it came from a range from the little nicks on the front plate.

 

 

 

Well, it's an F type hull and there were no F type Centaurs.......

 

You can't really see in the photos (Richard, you need to be taller!) but it has a large turret ring......

[steveo578]

Hi Adrian

 

The Cromwell turret shown has a squarish mantlet aperature with a radiused corner above the sights -verry similar to the 95mm Mk6 turrets was this an attempt to have a universal turret for 75-95mm (as did the Churchill Mk5 and 6 and later Mk4 T17**** serial).

 

Also I was looking at a pic of a Knocked out Mk6 in the Villers Bocage through the Lens book in that the Besa looks asymetrical to the main barrel (could be damage or the angle of the shot) -were the guns fixed at the same elevation or was the Cromwell 6 (95mm) similar to the Mk8 Churchill and possibly the A10 CS fitted with an excentric mount.

 

Steve

[Adrian Barrell]

Hi Adrian

 

The Cromwell turret shown has a squarish mantlet aperature with a radiused corner above the sights -verry similar to the 95mm Mk6 turrets was this an attempt to have a universal turret for 75-95mm (as did the Churchill Mk5 and 6 and later Mk4 T17**** serial).

 

Also I was looking at a pic of a Knocked out Mk6 in the Villers Bocage through the Lens book in that the Besa looks asymetrical to the main barrel (could be damage or the angle of the shot) -were the guns fixed at the same elevation or was the Cromwell 6 (95mm) similar to the Mk8 Churchill and possibly the A10 CS fitted with an excentric mount.

 

Steve

 

Steve, that turret is the modified original pattern. Previously considered by some as the second pattern, the original type having a bevel in the top right hand corner (as you look at the front). The last pattern having a bevel in the bottom right hand corner and usually seen on 75mm armed tanks.

 

My observations of turrets showed the second type merely to be the first with the bevel cut out, some neater than others! This was to allow for the later mantlet which had two telescope positions, though only the upper one seems to ever be used.

 

The 95mm turret has a different front plate and mantlet, the hole in the front being wider to suit. The 95mm tube is larger in diameter at that point than the 6 pr/75mm. The BESA in all Cromwells is fixed in line with the main gun and elevates with it but the 95mm installation has it a little further away from the main gun than the 6pr/75mm.