T54-55 in NVA service

[MichelK]

Hi folks,

 

I checked the story on the Universal carriers

 

In 1949 the NVA or the predessecor of it the "Kasernierten Volkspolizei" received 26 carriers from the Russian Army

These came from an grand total of 3600 that had been delivered to the Russian army during WW2 under the lend-lease programm

 

The Bundewehr bought 300 vehicle's from the UK in 1956, they where the first fully tracked vehicle's of the Bundeswehr

 

MichelK

[steveo578]

thanks for that you learn something new every day- I would have thought UCs supplied to the Soviets would have been well trashed by 1949 but obviously not:shocked:.

 

It must have been hell escaping across the border -on one side the guards have PPSh41 and drive drive around in carriers, get to the other side and the border guards have PPS43 clones and drive around in carriers.

[steveo578]

MichelK

At the same site, this page

It is about reducing to scrap old NVA T55 tanks starting in 1992, total number of T55's to be scraped 1500 :eek:

 

 

A couple of T54s that escaped the smelter img007a had a NVA insignia on the turret. img007b was possibly also of NVA origin but was Czech built -it gave up it's starter motor to the first one which was recovered under its own power after sitting in the English rain for 10years.

 

Steve

[AlienFTM]

Effectively this meant the T64 (and T80) would have a higher NBC integrity than the T62-T72 and T90 which would require an overpressure system, face masks or both to be NBC sealed.

Certainly we were always led to believe that the slow autoload cycle time of the T72 autoloader meant that a vehicular overpressure system was inadequate, whereas all RAC crews could hand-load a round before the previous empty case hit the empty cases bin (at least the payload in Chieftain if not the charge, which would be adequate obturation for the NBC pack to restore overpressure before anything started to come back down the barrel).

 

Irrelevant since we understood that in an NBC environment, all Soviet troops would be in full Noddy suit anyway, as indeed were we. Best thing about the NBC system was when it was really hot in summer, you could pump clean fresh air straight into your respirator and round your face. Not approved of course because it used up filter life.

[steveo578]

AlienFTM

 

Fair point,

 

my point is that T64 and T80 were high integrity value for the armoured force on point against a NATO first strike or first use of NBC -which the Soviets believed was a likely senario, whereas the other types were less capable for example it is unlikely that Soviet troops in Afghanistan would be operating in full NBC status after the intital seizure of Kabul on new years eve 1979. As would Russian 2nd line and milita troops operating in Georgia in the 2008 where Russian forces were again using T62.

 

Whilst available, it is also very unlikely that soviet equiped forces such as Syria would have used NBC kit- although the Israelis considered the use of biological and chemical agents was iminant and therefore equiped rebuild tanks such as M51 Isherman with M5A2 NBC "noddy suit masks" from contemporary M48s.

 

Steve

Edited May 6, 2010 by steveo578
poor grammar

[Panzer nut]

What make is the T-55 with mine plough in the museum? Czech or Polish??

Jon

 

PS:Hi Matteo

[schliesser92]

Hi folks,

 

I checked the story on the Universal carriers

 

In 1949 the NVA or the predessecor of it the "Kasernierten Volkspolizei" received 26 carriers from the Russian Army

These came from an grand total of 3600 that had been delivered to the Russian army during WW2 under the lend-lease programm

 

The Bundewehr bought 300 vehicle's from the UK in 1956, they where the first fully tracked vehicle's of the Bundeswehr

 

MichelK

 

 

The Bundeswehr vehicles were US licence-builds (by Ford) and were snapped up for a mere 4,000 quid apiece. Although originally destined for recce units, they were in fact used for resupply and training purposes. One vehicle (Y-320 271) was (unsuccessfully!) trialed as an ATGW vehicle, being fitted with seven SS10s.

[steveo578]

schliesser92

The Bundeswehr vehicles were US licence-builds (by Ford)

 

That's interesting do you mean T16 (ford built carrier variant) or have you found evidence that Ford built some standard universal carriers- this question has come up before that because of delays in getting the very different T16 production under way Ford contracted a nominally US consortium to build standard universals (ie those with 6 road wheels as opposed to the T16 8 road wheels) however these universals were actually built in Canada.

 

Steve

Edited February 11, 2011 by steveo578
quotes

[schliesser92]

That's interesting do you mean T16 (ford built carrier variant) or have you found evidence that Ford built some standard universal carriers- this question has come up before that because of delays in getting the very different T16 production under way Ford contracted a nominally US consortium to build standard universals (ie those with 6 road wheels as opposed to the T16 8 road wheels) however these universals were actually built in Canada.

 

Steve

The reference comes from a book about Bundeswehr vehicles from 1956 to today (well almost!). The photos show 3 road wheels, a driving sprocket and an idler on each side. They were fitted with a Ford 8-cylinder power plant, type 29W (6850 ccm, 100bhp approx) weight was given as 4.7 metric tonnes. I'll try and scan the relevant bits. The book also refers to them as licence-built by Ford in 1941/42.

[steveo578]

There were a couple of Universals cleared off a range near Fallingbostel in the 1990s,which were ex German Border Security and were standard Universals.

 

Normally Universals are rated at 85BHP. A cursory examination of a carrier can result in a erroneous conclusion that some were built in USA as the motors were sometimes US sourced -Ford GAEA andGAE motors.

 

As I mentioned before T16 were to be produced as an improved carrier for Lease/Lend at Ford Somerville near Boston Mas. (in total 13,893 built) as the contract was delayed Ford and the Lease/Lend authorities set up a contract with a nominal finance company called War Supplies Ltd. who let contracts for 5714 Universals. These were built in Canada where production was already on going, these, financed from US funds much like post war offshore military aid (for example British built Centurions for MADP counties such Denmark).

 

As you will understand U.S finance and the use of U.S sourced components lead to confusion.

 

Steve

[schliesser92]

There were a couple of Universals cleared off a range near Fallingbostel in the 1990s,which were ex German Border Security and were standard Universals.

 

Steve

 

 

I can actually find no reference that the BGS actually used carriers. The 300 purchased went straight to the Bundeswehr.

[steveo578]

schliesser92

I can actually find no reference that the BGS actually used carriers.

 

I am only relating what the guys at Fallingbostel told me when I queried how such a light afv could have been recovered in such a good (relatively speaking) condition. I accept your knowledge of Bundeswehr is better than mine.

 

Steve:cheesy:

[steveo578]

I've been umable to forward these be PM system

Here are the photos of the U/c I mention -they were on Nienburg range.

 

 

 

Steve

[MichelK]

What make is the T-55 with mine plough in the museum? Czech or Polish??

Jon

 

PS:Hi Matteo

 

No idea, it is not possible to read serial numbers

So unless there is some external feature between the 2 .. :???

 

Michel