question Alvis saladin - used by foreign governments - any info available ?

[Fugly]

I am looking for any advice or information on a Saldin that I am researching.

 

It has an Arabic numberplate showing Arabic numerals at the top , with English numerals at the bottom. Both display the number 81.

 

It was painted mainly desert yellow, with green camo stripes. It was made in the late 60's perhaps early 70's.

 

Hull number is ALV1084. It has black and white convoy marking on the rear skid plate .

 

It was in RR services yard for some time , and I assume (usually incorrectly) that it was in service with some middle east country . I understand that Yemen , Iraq, Kuwait and some other similar countries purchased them direct from Alvis.

 

Can anyone help ?

 

Thank you !

[Snapper]

Don't forget Jordan...

 

MB

[steveo578]

fugley

It was in RR services yard for some time , and I assume (usually incorrectly) that it was in service with some middle east country . I understand that Yemen , Iraq, Kuwait and some other similar countries purchased them direct from Alvis.

 

 

In addition it was used by Barrain(nk) Lebanon (nk) Libya (100) the Emirates(125) Sudan(50) Oman(36) Qatar(30) and Tunisia(20). Most of those in Emirates and smaller gulf states have been in reserve for some time and therefore may have been sold.

 

all tend to use the standard dual arabic/western script, probably not a lot of help.

 

Steve

Edited April 20, 2010 by steveo578
addition

[Fugly]

Thanks Steve

 

If someone knows which hull numbers were sold to which countries that would pin it down .

 

Anyone know ?

 

Jim

 

 

 

In addition it was used by Barrain(nk) Lebanon (nk) Libya (100) the Emirates(125) Sudan(50) Oman(36) Qatar(30) and Tunisia(20). Most of those in Emirates and smaller gulf states have been in reserve for some time and therefore may have been sold.

 

all tend to use the standard dual arabic/western script, probably not a lot of help.

 

Steve

[steveo578]

I think I can eliminate both Jordan, Abu Dhabi and possbly the Lebanon

 

Jordanian AFVs have a ID Plate with the Arabic script for Army in the upper half and Arabic(indian) style five digit number beneath.

 

Abu Dhabi (Emirates) vehicles have a similar plate with the Arabic script for Defence Force (I think) in the upper portrion and a number in Arabic(indian) script beneath. additionally most Emirates vehicles are two tone sand and earth rather than the standard British sand over bronze green

 

Lebanon Armoured Cars during the Civil War (1976) had a black number plate with large arabic (indian) numbers in the centre -generally about 5 digits and arabic script in smaller font above and below the number -which I cannot decpiher.

 

None of these nations had western numbers in addition -probably a case of "if I run you down you shouldn't be be in my country".

 

steve

Edited April 20, 2010 by steveo578

[sirhc]

Hopefully Clive will see this. He had photos of several green/sand Saladins in a dealers yard a long time ago. Andy in Derby also has a Saladin which was green/sand with arabic markings, who may be able to help.

 

Chris

[Fugly]

Hopefully Clive will see this. He had photos of several green/sand Saladins in a dealers yard a long time ago. Andy in Derby also has a Saladin which was green/sand with arabic markings, who may be able to help.

 

Chris

 

I have linked up with Andy , it turns out he lives about a mile from where I work. If Clive does see this I would like to see the pic - Mine had a number roughly painted on the front - (a lot number ?) If mine is on the photo I can ID it from that number .

 

Here is a pic showing the Saladin some years ago. Thanks for all the advice , please keep it coming . I would love to know where it has been . Looking forward to liftingb the gearbox out - may yield some clues ! Anyone know where Clive is !!

[Fugly]

I think I can eliminate both Jordan, Abu Dhabi and possbly the Lebanon

 

Jordanian AFVs have a ID Plate with the Arabic script for Army in the upper half and Arabic(indian) style five digit number beneath.

 

Abu Dhabi (Emirates) vehicles have a similar plate with the Arabic script for Defence Force (I think) in the upper portrion and a number in Arabic(indian) script beneath. additionally most Emirates vehicles are two tone sand and earth rather than the standard British sand over bronze green

 

Lebanon Armoured Cars during the Civil War (1976) had a black number plate with large arabic (indian) numbers in the centre -generally about 5 digits and arabic script in smaller font above and below the number -which I cannot decpiher.

 

None of these nations had western numbers in addition -probably a case of "if I run you down you shouldn't be be in my country".

 

 

 

steve

Thanks Steve

 

Thats knocked a few out of the running - Thanks !

[Fugly]

Here is what the plate looked like (It had 3 layers of this , all repeating the same )

 

Oddly enough there is a number 4 on the very first layer of paint , right in th middle of the plate. Maybe this was put on by Alvis, to Identify it in the factory? There are several layers of the same letters visible - sorry its a bit of a jumble.

[steveo578]

Your photo shows the arabic numerals ٨ and ٩ which is 8 and 9 in Western numerals the lower number are 3 and 1.

 

Is there any sign of an Arm of Service box (Red / blue) behind the numbers

 

Steve

[ferretfixer]

I am looking for any advice or information on a Saldin that I am researching.

 

It has an Arabic numberplate showing Arabic numerals at the top , with English numerals at the bottom. Both display the number 81.

 

It was painted mainly desert yellow, with green camo stripes. It was made in the late 60's perhaps early 70's.

 

Hull number is ALV1084. It has black and white convoy marking on the rear skid plate .

 

It was in RR services yard for some time , and I assume (usually incorrectly) that it was in service with some middle east country . I understand that Yemen , Iraq, Kuwait and some other similar countries purchased them direct from Alvis.

 

Can anyone help ?

 

Thank you !

 

It MAY be from a batch that Budge imported a few years back. I have seen quite a few all together looking just like yours, all from the same place. Also, ALL the Guns were removed.

I wanted a Silencer box when I had a Saladin at the time. They were most happy to remove one & the elbow casting & sell it to me direct!

Mike

[fv1609]

It MAY be from a batch that Budge imported a few years back. I have seen quite a few all together looking just like yours, all from the same place. Also, ALL the Guns were removed.

 

I believe they originated from Clive Evans Ordnance, Sturminster Marshall circa 1987. He "re-baralleled" a few though. I remember looking in some of the Red Crescent first aid boxes to find empty Arabic Coke cans, so it looked as if the were marked up genuinely. The word at the time, was that they had come from Yemen.

 

 

 

[Fugly]

Brilliant !

 

thanks Clive - definately on to something here ! I need to study the back of the turret.

 

Jim

Edited April 21, 2010 by Marmite!!

[fv1609]

Jim, I've scanned this at 720dpi, then used some fill flash & then brightened it all. Hope this gives a bit more detail.

 

[brandone]

I believe they originated from Clive Evans Ordnance, Sturminster Marshall circa 1987. He "re-baralleled" a few though. I remember looking in some of the Red Crescent first aid boxes to find empty Arabic Coke cans, so it looked as if the were marked up genuinely. The word at the time, was that they had come from Yemen.

 

 

 

 

Hi there,

 

I can confirm 100% with guarantee that these Saladins came from Oman.

 

I hope this helps with your research.

 

Was there anything else you were trying to ascertain on these?

 

brandone

[Fugly]

Hi there,

 

I can confirm 100% with guarantee that these Saladins came from Oman.

 

I hope this helps with your research.

 

Was there anything else you were trying to ascertain on these?

 

brandone

 

Thats very interesting ! I am always keen to see pictures of vehicles in service - its diffucult enough with vehicles used by the British Army , but may impossible with foreign forces - Where could I look for photos of vehicles in service with the Oman forces ?

 

I have had success with forums for ex British soldiers and regiments, is there similar out there for foreign forces?:-)?

[fesm_ndt]

there is a website for just military photos so you could see if they have a specific thread for Oman. They have for Cyprus, Malaysia etc

 

you can also search in there names Salladin etc.

 

Apologies, cannot give you the direct link as I am on my phone and dont have book marks on this..I'll have to look on my laptop later today

 

the beauty of Google.... http://www.militaryphotos.net/

Edited May 6, 2010 by fesm_ndt

[Fugly]

Hello All !

 

Just updating this thread - I am shotblasting the turret at the moment and can find no numbers or markings on the rear of the turret, some of the Saladin's in the pics kindly sent to me had clear markings on the back so I presume its not from that source . An earlier pic (see above ) shows a yellow disc on the side of the hull below turret - may be an oddly placed bridge plate? There is only one or two layers of desert yellow on the turret, with some green camo.

 

Found quite a few cartridge cases under the gearbox, all from around 1974. After studying a lot of the components there doesn't appear to have been any mods / rebuilds done (can't see and stamps etc). The rear plate has convoy markings on it , and shows an earlier layer of a green paint under sand yellow, one of the final layers of paint is a light green colour painted over the convoy marking. Hope to find more clues inside . Always keen to hear from people with ideas on its background.

[Fugly]

Hello All - very happy to have just received an email from a contact abroad who has just confirmed my Saladin has come from Oman - I had received some great help from members on the forum but have just received conclusive evidence. It now has a clear identity and I have pictures of some of its sisters in the armoured car squadron.

[robin craig]

Well don't hold back man! The rest of us following along at home here would like to see those pictures as well. . . . now back to the studio.

 

 

R

[fv1609]

So it matches up with all those I saw at Sturminster Marshall? Although the word at the time was Yemen, that was only on a gossip basis.

[Fugly]

Well don't hold back man! The rest of us following along at home here would like to see those pictures as well. . . . now back to the studio.

 

 

R

 

I will put afew pics on as soon as I get the go ahead - dont want to upset anybody at his end. He has sent me a pic of vehicle number 82 (and others) in service , mine was 81 so he is going to do some further digging around.

[Fugly]

So it matches up with all those I saw at Sturminster Marshall? Although the word at the time was Yemen, that was only on a gossip basis.

 

Hello Clive

 

Looks like it , it would seem that they were swapped for scorpions around 1980 / 82 and ended up back in the UK. I wonder if they all still exist ? There were quite a few on the photos you posted , and it looks like they originally had about 36 Saladins. At least one was left behind and has recently been renovated by a chap in Oman who works for the Army, along with 2 ferrets (and a chieftain?).

 

He has been kind enough to dig up a few photos and I will post them when I can get his approval.

 

I am very busy un seizing the mantlet on my Saladin - and have had some expert advice from Jon in Canterbury - just need to put some elbow grease into it !!:-D

 

Will post a few pics asap.

[Fugly]

Well don't hold back man! The rest of us following along at home here would like to see those pictures as well. . . . now back to the studio.

 

 

R

 

Ok - I have had the go ahead to post some pics , so I will start a new thread caled "In service Pictures of Oman saladins"

 

Please have a look !

[Fugly]

INFO ON SALADINS USED BY ADDF AND OMAN. Just an update on my research on the Oman saladin. Information provided to me gives the following assumptions - The Sultan of Oman's "Armoured Car Squadron" consisted of 38 Saladin vehicles, and numerous ferrets. They were involved in the Dhofar Conflict in the early 1970's and were used alongside troops trained and commanded by British officers, working on behalf of the Sultan Of Oman. The BATT ( British Army Training Team) were involved in the fighting and regularly led operations against insurgents. The first 8 Saladins appear to have been brand new from Alvis in 1971. (vehicles 70 -78) The next batch were 12 "second hand" Saladins supplied by the ADDF ( Abu Dhabi Defence Force) in 1973 ( vehicles 79 to 91). mine , numbered 81 was likely to have been with the ADDF before its time in Oman. A further 18 new vehicles arrived in late 1973 (numbers 92 to 109?). 12 of these were put into service and 6 were put into reserve. The Saladins were retired in 1984 and this one ended up back in the UK.

 

This might explain the number "4" I found on the first layer of paint on the number plate , this may have been its ADDF number? I have a contact in Oman who is currently has access to two Saladins that are still there , and their hull number suggest they were manufactured close together ?

 

I have been give a very entertaining contemporary written account of the activities of the armoured car squadron and they were involved in a lot of contacts.