oily Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Just had a quick look at what is involved in sorting out my 'no-drive' situation with my saracen, taking out the gearbox is a big job!, so much to take out 1st!,:blush:......I have already bought a new old stock gearbox, in case it needs taking out, but just wondering if checking and topping up the fluid flywheel would sort things:undecided:....kept losing drive intermittently, but was fine when left for 10 - 15 minutes, and almost got me home..... the gearbox itself has always been lovely, smooth and quiet, well, quiet for a 50odd year old design anyway.... Anyone know what oil I put in the flywheel? as I cannot for the life of me find my service schedule..... is it OM13, or OMD75, or auto tranmission fluid?.......I may be able to post a picture of the inside of the top of the gearbox, showing the brake band adjustment mechanisms etc,- in case anyone more clued up than me can give an on-line diagnosis, Any serious help/comments would be very gratefully recieved,-were these vehicles gearboxes renowned for problems like this in service?:cheesy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolsHumor Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Oily, Thank you for breaking trail here. I have a Mk 6 sitting with a rebuilt box in a crate awaiting the same fate. I will be anxiously awaiting your posts on the progress. Regards, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Just had a quick look at what is involved in sorting out my 'no-drive' situation with my saracen, taking out the gearbox is a big job!, so much to take out 1st!,:blush:......I have already bought a new old stock gearbox, in case it needs taking out, but just wondering if checking and topping up the fluid flywheel would sort things:undecided:....kept losing drive intermittently, but was fine when left for 10 - 15 minutes, and almost got me home..... the gearbox itself has always been lovely, smooth and quiet, well, quiet for a 50odd year old design anyway.... Anyone know what oil I put in the flywheel? as I cannot for the life of me find my service schedule..... is it OM13, or OMD75, or auto tranmission fluid?.......I may be able to post a picture of the inside of the top of the gearbox, showing the brake band adjustment mechanisms etc,- in case anyone more clued up than me can give an on-line diagnosis, Any serious help/comments would be very gratefully recieved,-were these vehicles gearboxes renowned for problems like this in service?:cheesy: ALWAYS check out the easy fix solutions first. You dont want to simply replace the box (With all the associated hard work!) if it's a problem that can be fixed quickly & easily. You state that it's ok after it's warmed up'. This sounds like she's low on Oil. If it's been running & the oil has warmed up & is nice & 'runny'. Then it will drive the vanes in the flywheel a lot easier. With the filling plug at the 12'O'clock position. The oil level should be at the bottom of the filling hole. if it's not, the level may well be low due to leaking. You may need a new seal. If the level is low, then 'slippage' occurs & subsequent overheating of the fluid flywheel. This will damage your seal & it will leak worse! Try that, if the oil lvel is ok, & your still getting problems, check that your automatic band adjusters are functioning ok. Not the easiest job to get the insp cover off, but easier than removing the box! Cant remember what oil you use without refering to the manual. Im sure one of our members will have that info off the top of thier head! Good luck, & let us all know how you get on. Mike. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiketheBike Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I am fairly sure its the same as a ferret, and from what I remember that is ISO10 hydraulic fluid. Wait for someone to confirm that though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pearson Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) Oil is OM13 which I think is an SAE 5 hydraulic oil. Automatic transmission fluid is, at best, a get you home alternative available from most forecourts. If you lose all drive, it is either: transfer box in neutral, no/low oil in fluid flywheel or a mechanical breakage in transmission. If it then comes back by itself, it is not mechanical or the transfer box! Check the oil visually, up to the bottom of the threads in the oil filler hole (DO NOT DROP THE FILLER INTO THE BELLHOUSING!) or by the 'stall test': Put gearbox into 3rd and engage. Rev up engine against handbrake for no more than ten seconds. If revs exceed 750, oil is low or brake band is slipping. Try again in 4th. If revs again exceed 750, oil is certainly low. If revs now held below 750, 3rd brakeband needs fixing. Pulling gearbox is certainly the very last resort! Edited January 25, 2010 by John Pearson typo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 OM13 you can use ISO 10 OR ISO 15, don't forget to use the correct tool to remove the plug from the fluid flywheel & don't drop the washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 Cracking response guys! and so quick too!:shocked:...I'm off work this week, so I'll try and check the fluid flywheel level, at some point. I'm thinking if it is a leak, does anyone reckon the proprietry auto gearbox leak fix juice, commonly available from Halfords etc, would be worth a try? and if it would be compatible with OM13?:undecided:...obviously I know the best solution would be: engine out, and replace seal on the flywheel.... but am thinking...'do I feel lucky?'....I have a prom booked for it in July.....:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 ......once I've got the cover off, how do I check to see if the band adjusters are working?....-is it just a case of toggling the GCP, and watching to physically 'see':wow: what actually happens in the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pearson Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 My Saracen started to leak in 1990 I think. I had some very slight success with the 'leak stopper' but the major problem for me is the small amount of driving I do: it is chassis no 12 and getting the engine/gearbox out is even more problematic than later ones. As a result, I park it with the hull drain plug out. I fill it up before I drive it and put the plug back in for the drive. Once the trip is finished, I remove the plug and put a drip tray under it. Depends on how much you drive and how much it leaks: a couple of pints a year probably means you put up with it like I do. A gallon a day, probably needs fixing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 thanks John....:undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugly Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Just had a quick look at what is involved in sorting out my 'no-drive' situation with my saracen, taking out the gearbox is a big job!, so much to take out 1st!,:blush:......I have already bought a new old stock gearbox, in case it needs taking out, but just wondering if checking and topping up the fluid flywheel would sort things:undecided:....kept losing drive intermittently, but was fine when left for 10 - 15 minutes, and almost got me home..... the gearbox itself has always been lovely, smooth and quiet, well, quiet for a 50odd year old design anyway.... Anyone know what oil I put in the flywheel? as I cannot for the life of me find my service schedule..... is it OM13, or OMD75, or auto tranmission fluid?.......I may be able to post a picture of the inside of the top of the gearbox, showing the brake band adjustment mechanisms etc,- in case anyone more clued up than me can give an on-line diagnosis, Any serious help/comments would be very gratefully recieved,-were these vehicles gearboxes renowned for problems like this in service?:cheesy: I am at the latter stages of relining the brake bands on my ferret. If its the same type of box I would not hesitate in recommending you rip it out and fix it. If you are a good home mechanic it can be done with some good advice - and the cost doesn't have to be massive. (sorry about the hat) Here are some pics - You will need somewhere warm to do it and gear to lift it out - I'm lucky with the ferret as it came out the top -The adjusters are reasonably straight forward. PM if you want any info. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 Thanks Jim, very kind of you....Looking at those pics was a little scary!.... seems I have a long lost twin!!!:wow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugly Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Thanks Jim, very kind of you....Looking at those pics was a little scary!.... seems I have a long lost twin!!!:wow: I dont know how much work is involved in taking your box out - loads probably but I am sure it will be worth it. If we are twins , please dont make youself known until AFTER the will has been read .... Good luck !! :-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 I take it you are familiar with the Saracen layout... all front armour needs taking off, then all interior floor panels, most likely the fuel tank also, then the engine comes out, then if I'm not mistaken the gearbox and transfer box also.... these then need separating, ...but a little bird tells me it may just be low fluid level in the flywheel. Gonna top it up with some fresh oil and some auto-box leak sealer and hope for the best, first of all, and take it from there....:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Can you not remove the gearbox from inside the crew compartment? Some info that might help here... http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~dgrev/dhmg/andjef.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 ....all seems to be going well now, apparently it appears to have been a v.slow, slight leak from the fluid flywheel, which has been cured, also whilst being laid up, the taper pin holding the hydraulic fluid pump had some how worked it's way out slightly, loosening tension on the drive belt..... -no pressure for steering or brakes...... this has now been adjusted and pin seated correctly (just maybe,.... it wasn't installed right when refurbed by REME back in 1983?):-D I'm gonna hassle our club to put on another Overlord 2010 Show, later this year, for my benefit, as my saracen wasn't ready for May this year!, and I missed taking it big time!:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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