Bomb Trolley

[listerdiesel]

Picked up a nice bomb trolley on Fleabay at the weekend, it's going to a new life carrying one of our engines.

 

Not sure of the age, looks fairly post-war to me.

 

Peter

[ted angus]

Peter trapped my fingers many times in the drive belts of this; your trailer is the chassis of a MK7 Air Conditioning Trolley

 

 

regards TED

[listerdiesel]

Well done, Ted, that's what we thought it may have been from, that or a genny :-D

 

With your permission I will let the guys over on our engine forum know what it is, with a credit for your picture.

 

Peter

Edited August 11, 2009 by listerdiesel

[ted angus]

Well done, Ted, that's what we thought it may have been from, that or a genny :-D

 

With your permission I will let the guys over on our engine forum know what it is, with a credit for your picture.

 

Peter

 

My pleasure not knowing your background and not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs you are aware this is not a road going trailer. designed for airfield use only on paved surfaces.

 

regards TED

[listerdiesel]

Yes, we already have some wheels and tyres off another trailer and they have "Not For Highway Use" or something similar embossed in the rubber.

 

It does have some rudimentary rubber suspension on it, but it was bought because it fits on the trailer so well, the back 3ft piece is to be removed.

 

The existing engine chassis is 1" longer than this trolley so not a bad fit

 

Apparently these were used on Hawker Siddeley Tridents, amongst other things.

 

Thanks again for the ID.

 

Peter

Edited August 11, 2009 by listerdiesel

[listerdiesel]

We've made a start on the trolley, the rear extension has been removed, so we have a cross-member behind the rear wheels only, takes about 2.5ft off the length. That must have been nearly 100kgs of metal! all solid bar on the sides and shackle points.

 

As we'll need to move this thing around once we get to site, we will need to have either a 50mm coupling on it, or a NATO hitch on the Disco.

 

The coupling dismantles easily, got it all on the bench in bits, and it's the larger 76mm ring size.

 

Do we modify this or just buy a NATO hitch? Does the NATO jaw assembly fit a standard Land Rover Discovery tow bar, as it has four holes?

 

If anyone has the answers, would appreciate a reply.

 

Peter

[Degsy]

It depends on which type of tow bar you have fitted, it would help if you could post a pic. If it is the fully adjustable type with the slider plate and it only has 4 holes then no, it won't fit. There is a slider plate which has 8 holes, the 4 bolts for the NATO hitch are smaller than the 2 bolts used for the ball/pin hitch. Hope this helps.

[Degsy]

Just re- read your post and noticed you mention 76 mm ring size, if this is the size fitted to Bedford MJ's etc then ignore my previous post as this will not go on a Disco tow bar.

[ted angus]

Peter presuming its the original hitch It's not visible in your shots; These items of ground support equipment (GSE) should have been towed by Tractors equipped with a multi jaw towing hitch with pin. Many of these items weighed 2 tons or more, for braking to be effective the tow bar should be parrallel with the ground hence the multi jaw which gave choice of 5 positions a range of 12 to 30 inches above ground height.

 

On flying stations, Landies on flights /sections/ sqns that needed to move GSE were often additionally established with SWB Landies equipped with a similar towing device. Although this particular trolley was outside the towing range of a swb Landie they were often used for towing way beyond the legal limit. Often the source of accidents in wet or icy conditions, put the Landie brakes on wheels lock but trailer wants to continiue and a jackknife results.

Towing with a standard landie hitch meant the tow bar was not parrallel to the ground, the eye would be somewhat higher than it should have been, when the Landie braked the eye would be bent up , in the extreme the eye would shear and/or the tow bar would bend. In case you are not familiar with this type of hitch I am looking for a piccy I can send unfortunately my scanner id dead or you could have several.

 

TED

[ted angus]

Peter best I can do I am afraid a modern tractor but it shows the idea TED

[listerdiesel]

Thanks for the responses, and the picture, Ted.

 

I don't need the full tow hitch rating, and it might be easier to make a new coupling shaft up and bolt a standard 50mm hitch to it.

 

The existing shaft is double-diameter with a thread half-way along that has a screwed sleeve fitted. The sleeve sits midway between the take-up spring and the overrun spring. It is locked in place with a 1/4" UNF bolt.

 

There isn't enough shaft length left if I saw the 76mm ring off, although I could probably get one of my engineering mates to extend the shaft for me, our own lathe is too small to get it in, although possibly I could turn it in the fixed steady.

 

Interesting little conundrum with the 'suspension':

 

The rubber blocks have about an inch of movement, the axles fit through holes in the chassis which allow about 1/2" of movement, the track rod ends are 1/8" off the chassis as it is, so there have been placed a series of steel blocks in top of the three axles which effectively prevent the axles moving vertically. The steering will jam if the axles move up more than 1/8"!

 

Why they couldn't have modified the steering arms to run an inch lower under the chassis I don't know.

 

The tow bar is another bad design. The vertical pivot is a bit of 7/8" or so mild steel bar that fits into the steering head, with the towbar fitting over each end where it pokes out. There is no grease or lube facility for the ends, which are about 1" worth of bearing area and completely exposed, while the 10" or so of bar that goes through the head and could have been used is just sitting there. The bar was rusted in, but we got it out with a big brass drift and hammer. Once cleaned up and greased it all went together again, but I feel a modification coming on....

 

Peter

[ted angus]

Peter the design of many of these different types of GSE was appalling, consequently keeping them serviceable was a constant headache. If you think that chassis arrangement was heath robinson you should have seen inside some of them The forerunner of your piece of kit was the MK 5 air cooling and conditioning trolley used to cool V bombers shackletons transports etc in hot climates. If the internal temp of these aircraft wasn't kept fairly constant condensation in the Avionics ( aircraft electronics) and electrics could and often did cause major malfunctions.

 

The MK 5 was reknown for its useless battery charging system, not too much of a problem when they were powered by a petrol Ford later they changed to a Ford diesel which obviously required a much greater starting current. The 2 12v 100ah batteries were mounted just under the canopy roof which was just under 6 ft high. many finger tips lost !!

 

good luck

TED

[Adam Elsdon]

We've made a start on the trolley, the rear extension has been removed, so we have a cross-member behind the rear wheels only, takes about 2.5ft off the length. That must have been nearly 100kgs of metal! all solid bar on the sides and shackle points.

 

As we'll need to move this thing around once we get to site, we will need to have either a 50mm coupling on it, or a NATO hitch on the Disco.

 

The coupling dismantles easily, got it all on the bench in bits, and it's the larger 76mm ring size.

 

Do we modify this or just buy a NATO hitch? Does the NATO jaw assembly fit a standard Land Rover Discovery tow bar, as it has four holes?

 

If anyone has the answers, would appreciate a reply.

 

Peter

 

I have the older style military hook as per champ/pig etc and it fits onto the back of my Mitsubishi Shogun no problem, it required two holes drilling so that all four lined up, and its a 5 minute job to unbolt and fit the standard 50mm ball hitch. Works quite well with my 1 Ton Brockhouse trailer, drove from Notts to Aberdeen no problem, obviously not a major consideration if you are using it primarily for shunting around or moving it in a show area, i nearly said put a hook on the front, but i dont think the Disco will have anywhere to do it.

[listerdiesel]

Thanks, Adam, info much appreciated.

 

Looking at it again today, I think we will chop the ring off flush with the shaft, turn it square and bore down the shaft for a spigot to extend the length of the shaft. Then bolt a conventional Bradley 50mm hitch to the shaft.

 

The most work it will do is pulling the trolley round a field or hardstanding at a show, and then for reversing up onto the trailer again.

 

Pictures below of the new engine frame on the trailer, the channel pieces were drilled tonight ready for drilling the trolley frame tomorrow.

 

The last picture shows the drawbar that I was having a go about yesterday.

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

[listerdiesel]

Just to show what goes onto the trolley and frame....

 

Peter

 

 

 

[chevpol]

nice Ruston, my dad used to own of a 1904 Hornsby Stockport gas engine, also part owner of a Blackstone

 

Mark

[listerdiesel]

I have the older style military hook as per champ/pig etc and it fits onto the back of my Mitsubishi Shogun no problem, it required two holes drilling so that all four lined up, and its a 5 minute job to unbolt and fit the standard 50mm ball hitch. Works quite well with my 1 Ton Brockhouse trailer, drove from Notts to Aberdeen no problem, obviously not a major consideration if you are using it primarily for shunting around or moving it in a show area, i nearly said put a hook on the front, but i dont think the Disco will have anywhere to do it.

 

Thanks for the info, Adam, should've kept my old Champ!

 

I've had a new shaft made up, and have kept the old shaft and ring in case I need to change it back at any time. The new shaft is 1.75" diameter and longer at the ring end, I'll bolt a standard non-brake type of Bradley 50mm coupling to it.

 

Peter

[listerdiesel]

nice Ruston, my dad used to own of a 1904 Hornsby Stockport gas engine, also part owner of a Blackstone

Mark

 

The Stockports were lovely engines, very quiet running and very desirable. Never got close to a Blackstone, but while at a private collection a few weeks ago saw some gorgeous Hornsbys, big ones as well.

 

Mine's only a tiddler, 34" flywheels and 11hp full diesel. Care to guess when it was made?

 

Peter

[chevpol]

close to 1912? My dads Blackstone is now at the Anson Museum in Poynton, absolutly crammed full with engines of all sizes etc, The original owner died a few years ago, Les Cawley, had known him a very long time, there is a room at the museum dedicated to his life. My dad started with stationary engines in 1975,(my god, I was 9!!!!!) we met Les then, a very charming and knowledgable bloke, used to rally a Furnival engine.

 

Mark

[listerdiesel]

We are life members of the Anson, they have one of our Caterpillar 1Y73 research engines on long-term loan.

 

Never met Les, but know Geoff Challinor well.

 

The Ruston is 1965 manufacture, one of the last made.

 

Peter

Edited July 8, 2010 by listerdiesel

[chevpol]

small world mate, dad says that all the blackstones are on plinths ready to have a roof put up over them.

 

Mark

[listerdiesel]

Way to go, let's have some pictures when they are up and running.

 

Peter

[chevpol]

ok, will try!!!!! havnt had chance to see it yet though!

 

Mark

[listerdiesel]

It has been a while, and many thanks for the replies since my original query, very much appreciated. I have acknowledged sources on other threads and forums.

 

We had our annual to trip to Holland over their Whitsun Bank Holiday, which this year was a week earlier than ours. The Ruston & Hornsby ran well, the trolley did its job, our son's Landy Series III has a NATO hitch so we were able to move it across the grass when unloaded.

 

Picture of us leaving the site attached.

 

Peter

[listerdiesel]

We have revised the 'undercarriage' of the Ruston, and the trolley is now on ebay if anyone is interested:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120763766770

 

The old arrangement is here:

 

 

 

The new arrangement, with the Carrier wheels is here:

 

 

 

It will be at Barleylands for the Essex Country Show on 10th / 11th September.

 

Peter

Edited August 15, 2011 by listerdiesel