ted angus

You are on the right track with the markings; but have you seen much evidence of K2 ambulances in use on UK airfields; I have been searching for 40 years and only found evidence of them in the service of the Joint War Organisation of St Johns & the British Red Cross who manned conoys meeting hospital ships, ambulance trains and casevac aircraft. I know the RAF had one or two in Italy. TED

Found a shot taken in the same road of a Ford 7V tructor it also bore the 5 Checked in my copy of marking regs and that states MT Companies to bear the company number in stead of a command/group marking. 5= No 5 MT Company, RAF Parkside, Livingstone Drive, Sefton Place, Liverpool 17.

I don't have much info on ENSTONE it was mainly a bomber training station 91 group. So the theory is a Roundel plus B/91 plus a bridge class mark. On a Jeep its a case of put the marking where it will fit. The convention was roundal on offside with Command/Group mark above it . Have a dig into other local airfield some were bound to be involved in 2TAF and therefore far more likely to have Jeeps. TED

He has done a lifetimes research; So I would say yes. Certainly I use all his formulas for my models.

I had to dramtically resize it was well ober 1MB !

I played with the properties of the shot I posted and I still think it is yours. The picture is Queens Drive Liverpool dated 9 jan 1943, the one I am now attaching was taken in upper parliment St and its 1944 so there is a good chance that sometime during 1943 a bit of a repaint to accomadate the vehicle getting its full set of markings. ?? I have also reposted the first one ofter a bit more playing. I will get the original and post that as well shortly TED

I reckon this is also your truc ?? TED

GYR 786 started life with the Army fire service. shortly after VE a sizeable batch were tranferred to the National Fire Service. In Army service they carried a Coventry Climax light pump in the back and towed a Dennis trailer pump. The third pic shows one in Service with Liverpool Fire service post august 1948 The QL is in Red but the pump which is a Harland, is still in NFS grey. The QL looks very light due to the type of film. In this picture the hose stowage lockers can be seen in the body sides. There is a 1/72 kit of the vehicle but it is very basic. TED

Sorry didn't make myself clear; Once we went into exercise/alert mode their dress was the same as everyone else but with the addition of the arm band, So the answer is yes arm band with NBC suit. TED

As a Flt Sgt in Germany my war role was as an incident commander; I often had RAF P patrols under my command at incidents. Their dress was the same as everyone else but with the addition of the RAFP armband. On Station once the alert/warning state deemed NBC suites to be donned, helmets were the only headdress. TED p.s. yes what a d*ckhead that lad was robbing the bank I was at Laarbruch when it happened 1980 or 81 !!

unbelievable !!!

Yes I second all that motion !! RUSSELL KG No 3 was never included in any British Standard. However A chap called Mike Starmer has spent years researching these colours and from several souces obtained original items finished in KG No 3 ; His research was primarily for the model world. A company called White Ensign Models have produced the colour in their British armour range it is ARB 03 in their Briish amour range. So if I wanted to reproduce the colour life size I would invest in a tin of ARB03 airbrush it onto a piece of flat material which has been primed with Halfords grey primer (aerosol) . then take it to a motor factor/auto paint dealer and get it scanned with their magic machine. There may already be a restoration type paint dealer doing the colour ????? By the way the colour is brownish so don't be expecting a really green colour ! The front vehicle in the attached is in KG No 3. TED

Steve sorry cannot agree with this; Certainly up to 2004 when I got the bullet, it was never practise to re-reg a vehicle due to an assett code change; To double check I was down at RAF Leuchars this morning and was able to check the Landies of 71 Eng regt RE that have been thru the LEP; I checked 3 and all bear their original reg numbers xx K* xx. TED

Hi Mike as you say primer to bare substrate but if a shot blasting not availible a partial rub back- possibly leaving old layers then blast on some primer . We will never know. We looked after 27 sqn here at leuchars for 5 years befotre they moved to Englandshire, Their vehicles always left us in standard RAF markings . They then fitted the blue /red Tac plates themselves although we used to make them up for them in workshops. But like you piccies of them displaying the roundal are like rocking horse poo ! Mind how often do yopu see Regt lads with there cap badge over the left ear instead of the left eye. The official colour for the Rapier launcher was Dk green & Dk Earth but again most piccies show green and black. TTFN TED

Through most of my 39 years service I was in the same part of the empire as the painters. For the last 14 I had the paintshops under my command. I can tell you that until 2006 the RAF had a huge trade of Painters & Finishers. On some units a small proportion were crown civil servants. In 1977 when this Landie was built we had been using IRR Matt green for 3 years, I would expect that its contract would have called for this finish ; It would have been a single item Alkyd finish. Its undercoat would have been dark Admiralty grey and its primer would have been that currently in use for each type of substrate on the vehicle i.e. ferrous or non-ferrous. On some smaller stations which didn't have a paintshop a larger unit would have been formally tasked to give "parenting" in that particular field. exceptionally the task may have been contracted out or there may have been an arrangement in place with the nearest Army base workshop. However, all contract requirements would have been strictly in accordance with current regs and in some instances even contractors would have received the required material and technical paperwork via the RAF's higher technical authority for surface finishing Re markings on RAF Regt vehicles on USAF bases were required to comply with all RAF marking regs; They operated just like any other sqn other than the the good old USA gave HMG a bundle of dollars to fund them. Re compliance: I used to sign off the useage returns to the Station health and safety office that could be called for by SEPA (Scottish Enviro Protection Agency). IRR was exempt as was the new finishes which we first used for gulf war 2 . For the record; Many non operational stations had all their support services(including surface finishing) contractorised many years ago. In 2006 the task was taken over on operational units by SERCO. Part of the contract was to employ all the remaining RAF painters until the end of theri engagement; At which point that person's post would be filled by a civillian; The serviceman normally got first shout on the post. There was a practise where users tarted up there own vehicles and slapped on IRR green & black for purely b*llsh*t reasons, but once their Sqn COs and WOs were educated into the health hazards of IRR and that improper application nullifies its operational effectiveness the practise was got rid of; but it did take many years. re the colours; in 77 IRR green was the finish for Strike Command and RAFG in other commands it was still RAF Blue /Grey. For tactical units black could be applied if called for by the vehicle's role. Even the USAF asigned Rapier sqns were under operational control of Strike Command. On the cross member could the blue grey actually be Dk AD grey ? and we were at that time using some primers on both ferrous & non ferrous that were similar in finish to eau de nil. ??? TED

HMG -Her Majesty's Government . LCC- London County Council. (PE)- Procurement Executive. AFS/CD - Auxiliary Fire service/Civil Defence. PJJ etc yes reg numbers and it is note worthy that some of these old style reg numbers were still being issued several years after the suffix reg numbers came about. I have an ex AFS Austin Gipsy its Reg is ***FUW the folowing year the batch of AFS Gipsys was CYY***C Hope this helps. TED

Spot on Richard ; RAE Farnborough passed from Air Ministry/Ministry of Aircraft Production /RAF control to the Min of Supply in 1948. from then on their vehicles started to carry civvy reg numbers issued from the HMG reserved blocks in the LCC register. Although Farnborough had many vehicle types to RAF and other Service specs, they also procured many straight off the shelf civvy types. A general purpose Landie would have no need to be of military standard. As with all government depts there was constant reorganisation. at different times Farnborough was under Min Supply, Min of aviation, Min of technology. & MOD (PE). As well as sharing some of the LCC reg blocks used also by the AFS/CD and Home Office supplied police vehicles, The RAEs and indeed the dozens of other research & experimental establishments used vehicles registered in the following LCC blocks. PJJ, PLF NGY, RGX, SXT, MLM to name a few. TTFN TED

By chance saw part of Ep 2 tonight and I saw the truck being used to transport pilots. Look like a small Bedford A still would be great but I think it was KG No 3 and the light green I mentioned TED

I think for the time it was written it is a great book and in fact remains the only one on the subject. In those days the files at Hendon were considered to be the ultimate on the subject, but in recent years access to Kew has given a much broader view of the subject. When using AMOs as a resource its no good looking at individual ones in isolation, a better interpretation of its contents can be gleaned by at least viewing the one it succeeded and the one that then succeeded it. Also many of the AMOs have had amendments carried out to them; either handwritten or paste on strips of replacement text; it needs to be viewed in its unmolested state and then compared with its amended state. Often because the paste on amendment strips cannot be lifted it is impossible to get a truely accurate original version. The other thing I found was Hendon's copy of AP 3090 MT regs dated sept 1944 which has all the marking regs, tables of bridges classes, max speeds, carrying capacities and a host of other useful info was a copy that had been amended many times over several years and consequently does not give a clear picture of the setup in 1944-- whereas the KEW copy is mint . regards TED

There was a big write up on this film on another forum. It is now clear the film was made over the winter of 1944/5 It seems even the details of the mission they were departing on was given. TED

Afraid I missed it i am not a tv fan so unless I get advance warning I normally miss out on these little gems. At the time of the BoB the Army in UK were using Khaki Green No 3 and either a light or dark green as the second colour, now we know fron Kew documents that the RAF was following The army's lead in this subject. I have some chips of Khaki Green No 3 (KG) and the greens, in some good light conditions KG looks almost brown /earthy ; the light green was just slightly lighter than the Air Ministry/Min of aircraft Production Standard Dark Green. So the answer could be it was in KG No 3 and the Light green No G5. To give you an idea of KG attached are 2 shots of a vehicle finished in Khaki Green No 3 and black- I think you might agree just how brown or earthy the KG looks especially in the right hand shot?/ It could be the answer ?? TED

Afraid more research from period documents and files at both Hendon & Kew shows much of the above is incorrect. A few examples :: Building and aircraft paints were not suitable for vehicles, files note Stations and Units had been purchasing their own supplies of paint for vehicles following the colours in use by the Army. Photo evidence shows Majority of vehicles of the Air Component Field Force that went to France in 1939 was camo the same as the Army. Middle east was Middle Stone and dark sand later Lt stone Only. From Files at Kew re air recognition and period photos -few RAF vehicles carried the white star. The RAF invasion of Europe air recognition mark was the oversize roundal on the top and sides. Before SCC2 Brown and SCC14 black there was the SCC2 Brown and SCC1A dark brown scheme. TED

The 1974 move to IRR Matt green initially only applied to Strike Command and RAF G Hence still some MT in RAF Blue Grey when you joined up. TED

Thank you Richard 1/76th it is so I will call those dims identical what was ther old saying in industry "close enough for government work" thanks again TED

Clive / Richard Richard is the discrepancy very much please ?? I was hoping they would be near identical as is the case with the ambulance bodies. You may have guessed there could be a model to make at the end of this ! regards TED