ted angus

You won't get any photos, although depicted by several modelling magazines in WW2 livery The Austin K6 CO2 tender was not built until 1946; by SUN/KIDDE TED

yes and putting it another way the overall diameter by 1mm. The rear tyres on the Amazon are 13.50 x 20 I just tried an Amazon tyre against my built QM it seems all Airfix tyres are wrong, The AEC refueller also has 13.50 x 20 The refueller tyre is much smaller than the Amazons; I think the refueller tyre in the kits is too small something borne out by all the beeefed up tyres in the upgrade kits on the market --- but I also think the Amazon tyre is to big. If you use the axle stub as per kit the Amazon tyre wont fit into the wheel arch, even the refueller tyre may not fit in either, certainly trying one its a very tight fit. . The answer may be to lower the stub axle to gain vertical clearance but I am not sure it would gain the necessary horizontal clearance. . Nothing is easy in trying to ge6t these old but still produced airfix kits right. Keep plodding mate I need all the inspiration I can get at the moment and I certainly get that from your work !! TED

Regs for RAF vehicle colours were promulgated in various ways by several Depts. With different schemes running concurrently. During the 1960s there was a program to paint all airfield use vehicles & GSE yellow, but before completion Strike Command and RAF Germany went to IRR Matt green with a 4" painted yellow band (soon replaced by removable yellow tape) airfields belonging to other Commands continued the Yellow program for several years. Today yellow is again the preferred colour for airfield use vehicles. Concurrently Gliding Schools have had seperate rules published by the OPs Branch (Air Traffic Contol) which throughout have required yellow vehicles; Turning to your Landie 90. In the early 1990s at Leuchars we acted as the parent unit for non glider engineering to the GSs at Arbroath & Kirknewton, they received new 90s and not only did we have to paint them Golden yellow from BSC 241 green, but we had to put additional clear panels in the canvas tilts; One each side and one in the rear flap, The memory is straining but I think we also put one in the sloping portion above the driver + front pax. Certainly up to 2004 the yellow was BSC 356 Golden Yellow. As an aside in case you come accross any BSC numbers, for many years BSC 241 was erroneously numbered 641. This is often a source of confusion to restorers. I note various model paint outlets stock both 641 & 241 Mnnn one and the same !!! TED The first yellow vehicle I drove was at Scampton in 1968 a good old Series 2 88"swb with canvas top;

Cracking Job, Had my sons with their families for easter feast got the boys away from the compulsory enjoyment into my den to get some designs on control surface locks. They gave me sketches of various types but Oldest who has been airframes for last 22 yrs tells me he believes hurri etc didn't have them they used a stick lock and rigging pins. Have you any info to suggest this is right or wrong. I think I will put a 5 ton trailer in the queue to be hauled with a Bedford S and something like a Hunter on bard or a Javelin I have a Jav kit in the loft regards TED

Jessie go back to message 33 ian scales measured the 5 ton version at the Yorkshire Air museum and it was 40ft overall, the first 10 ton version was again still only 40ft with 34ft inside . I am hoping to make some progress with my Amazons tomorrow one will be lwb. the other swb keep plodding the end is in sight TED

Jessie both 3 & 5 ton were the same length, I have recently had access to the WW2 ed of the RAF data book of MT; this is what I extracted; WW2 QM dimensions 3 ton Overall length 40ft Inside body 34ft external width 8ft 6 inch internal width 6ft Overall height 5ft 6inch internal height 2ft 6inch Tyres 10.50 x 20 5 ton Overall length 40ft Inside body 34 ft external width 9ft internal width 6ft 1inch (at wheelarch 5ft 6 inch) Overall height 4ft 4inch internal not given Tyres 13.50 x 20 TED

Good luck either way Its coming together fantastically regards TED

re the cam for the crane see attached Hemswell spring 1944. I have also been looking at Amazon crane specs etc The Airfix crane is also a combination of 2 versions; to cut a long story short there were 2 jibs lengths. only the short one had the screw thread derricking arrangement. On the long jib featured in the kit the lead screw is replaced by a winch arrangement running over a single pulley . Looking in my Bart Vanderveen bibles ; both are Coles MK V11, the short jib with screw is a MK V11 series 2 the long jib raised by cable & pulley is a MK V11 series 7. Good old airfix not one of their Airfield vehicle sets is anywhere near being accurate ! TED

Fabio, The bulk of RAF vehicles in N Africa were supplied directly from Commonwealth ( and later US) countries and not via the UK. documents in TNA Kew reveal the RAF and Army were working with the RAE boffins at Farnborough from 1936 on various cam schemes to suit various overseas theatres of operation. In 1937 the colour for Iraq was notified as Khaki ???? But to what spec isn't mentioned , there certainly wasn't a Khaki in the BS spec- it may well have been simply to an Air Ministry spec or it may have been the colour we know as Khaki Green No 3. By the outbreak of war The RAF adopted the same colours as the Army had adopted for Egypt etc which was Dark Sand ??? and Middle Stone BSC 62) in a cam pattern to MTP 20. . This was later (early 1941) replaced by Lt Stone (BSC 61) as a base colour with Silver Grey (BSC 28 ) and Slate (BSC 34) as the disruptive colours, although photo evidence suggests most RAF vehicles were just in the base colour. There is no reference for the dark sand but a CWD spec is mentioned in Kew documents- this might stand for Camouflage Warfare Dept ??? re registration: both RAF and Army vehicles in Egypt carried a WD number normaly in english and arabic. This was totally seperate and different to the normal Army reg eg L 123456 and to the RAF 12345 ( from april 1941) The WD number was normally on the bumper in black on a white background. looking from the drivers seat, in english on the right and arabic on the left. As time progressed the RAF number gradually took over and the WD number disappeared outside Egypt. Some RAF vehicles ran well into the war on Army nunbers as they had come from Army stock and a replacement RAF number hadn't been issued. pre april 1941 RAF vehicles had RAF stencilled on each cab door or on a suitable place on the body, this was a variation of the UK scheme which employed screw on metal letters. In N africa the RAF was normally in black as opposed to white in UK. There were 2 types of roundals the First was a large air recognition roundel painted on the bonnet or roof , it had either a white or yellow outer circle. These roundels were to be as large as possible. Then came the 9inch roundel from august 1941. looking from the drivers seat; in the UK it was to be on the right side so police etc controlling traffic could see it. Overseas it varied depending which side of the road the traffic was driving, however evidence is that marking of vehicles overseas was far more relaxed than in UK. The dark base colour you refer to on Bedfords may well have been KG no 3 or RAF blue grey, as they had come from UK, but your CMP would have alomost certainly been directly delivered. The problem with this type of thing for overseas is - as soon as you work out a timeline you find evidence which muddies the water, as regulations for overseas commands were rarely published in AMOs and the relevant documents to build a full and accurate picture are no doubt long gone. . Overseas, units/sqns normally put an ident marking on the cab doors. For Flying sqns they applied 2 letters, these were the pair of identifying letters issued to that sqn that you commonly see on aircraft. for other units such as MT companies a locally authorised badge. TED

Its a problem we always sufferred The brown jobs were so intrigued by the magic we cunjured we often got a mesmerised audience keep up the great work TEd

Jessie why are you escorting the convoy with army DRs ?/

Yup !!! my son's are nipping my ear so ................................ TED

vac connection, on early trailers it appears to go into the front face of the head, later it came in over the top. connected to tractor on chassis.

Just seen your latest piccies on the other Forum, re the crane the only real thing to address is the cab roof rack. Its looking great. TTFN TED

Les the pump on the Weeton was a Coventry Climax light trailer pump minus the trailer. I have a copy of part of a post war Home Office report into fire equipment supply from 1938 -1947. Other than specialist fire vehicles all pumps of standard designs irrespective of end user were purchased via the Home Office (later Min home Security) through the Office (later Min) of Works. all pumps came off the production line in Dark Ad grey BS 32 normally they were not repainted until they actually needed it. I have seen a piccy taken at Scampton with the weetons pump in grey and their trailer pumps on the station also in grey. Once they needed a repaint it would have become cam colour as per the rest of the vehicle. There is also evidence that initially the Dennis pumps behind the Army FS QLs were Dk Ad grey. but not for long I suspect. TED

Give it a go Tony I have only used 14 plasters this week !!LOL TED

My son has alreading been on the phone given me instructions on stowing the wings !!! LOL I just dropped it all in for a progress shot. My other son who is an aircraft tech will be home from det tomorrow so yet more instructions. Have you seen the egg boxes ? the edges are covered in either rubberised horsehair or thick sponge held in place with tacked canvas, most of the time the leading edge would just sit on the "box". bear in mind the convoy would never run more than 15mph so there wouldn't be much vibration. I am not intending to do a diorama, i have a shelf in my cabinet of RAF vehicles, this convoy will just join all the others; otherwise I would have sub contracted one of my sons to do all the ground locks etc. Had a dio been on the cards then more detail would have been incorperated, re colour By mid 1944 the UK olive drab SCC15 with blackish SCC14 disruptive was in use, but vehicles were not to be repainted until a full repaint was necessary- so I would suggest sticking with the browns SCC2 and SCC 1A. For those who havent seen them before egg boxes are lying beside this QM. TED

My repair & salvage unit detachment are moving a servicable Hurricane of 601Sqn Duxford, to a Wings Day appeal in a town "somewhere in Englandshire" ! Still some touching up to do. Markings to go on then a bit of weathering then secure the loads. Although I haven't removed the excess bracing as Jessie has done I have rebuilt the head to the original form. It seems at some point a sheet metal contour was added to the front bracing as per Jessie's. Of course on the 5 ton model the head was connected to the outer side of the sides. The posts covered in canvas coated sponge supporting the wings sit in rectangular boxes compartmented with a series of cutouts so the posyts can sit in various positions. These boxes are known in the trade as egg boxes. in progress is the amazon crane, then to build the 3 ton tender either a Fordson 7v or a Dodge Kew to carry the tools, lifting tackle and personal kit; The det commander normally a Flt Sgt or WO will have either a Fordson or Humber heavy utility. TED

Jessie, not strictly a lick over. the blue/ grey would have been a synthetic or cellulose enamel. The first cam colours were a distemper based paint, often supplied as a tub of paste which was thinned with water and sometimes a quantity of methylated spirit added to speed up drying. Gradually Paint PFU became availible; PFU is prepared for use. i.e. a paint as you and I know it today. This was applicable initially to the Khaki Green No 3 (base colour) and Nobels Dark tarmac Green No 4 and light Green no 5 ( alternative disruptive over colours). SCC 2 etc were supplied as PFUs with a red oxide primer. After the initial cam finish, vehicles were only repainted as and when a full repaint was necessary, Unless it was a fairly new trailer leaving the factory in browns it would have already been in a previous cam finish. So it would be more likely to see the previous cam colours creeping through or if it had had a full makeover then it would be the red oxide primer. there was nothing pretty about the paint jobs, see attached TED

Alan it must have been a preminition !! TED

Thanks for sjharing those, they look like the short version of the QM one of which you made a model of ?? TED

Best you get it painted white then !!! LOL TED

Only a few DP1 tenders were fitted with tjhe roof monitor they also had a anti-fragmentation screen over the front . In the picture posted the brackets above the windscreen are visible. Attached is a shot of what I reckon is the same tender many years previous. TED

top shot the left hand Vehicle is an ex RAF Bedford Miles water tender, the right hand vehicle is a Bedgford SHZ 4x2 ex Green Goddess ; these were supply ex UK AFS to the Cypriot Fire Services. They were sent over after the UK Inspector of Fire Services did an inspection for the Cypriot government. I saw 4x2 ex Goddesses in Limassol, Nicosia and Larnaca, In the Turkish enclave in the old walled city of Famagusta they had a 4x4 Gopddess still gloos green with AFS markings, parked along side was a Bedford QL ex RAF fuel bowser converted to a water tender. The lower picture is a Thorny Nubian DP 1 ex RAF. this may be the one that had a monitor on the roof which was used at the Bloodhound site at RAF Paramalli , then at Akrotiri. TED

I have previously posted on various threads the results of my research via the RAF museum & TNA Kew into Cam finishes in the RAF. In brief, all RAF vehicles had to be camouflaged as at August 1941 as per Air Ministry Orders. However, photo evidence and documents at Kew show cam started as soon as war was declared , earliest evidence I have found is convoys embarking for France in sept 1939 were cam. also pictures of bowsers etc taken late 1939 on UK aerodromes . So as USA didn't enter the war until dec 1941 then nothing would have been in RAF blue grey by that date. You pick a date for your models and I will tell you the colours in use at that date, of course preceding colours would still have been in use as the orders prohibted chasnges of cam colour until the next repaint was needed. . My tractors are in the late 1943 colours of SCC 2 brown ((often incorrectly called Dark Earth note dark earth was an aircraft not vehicle colour.)) and a distruptive pattern in SCC 1a dark brown. note other than colour SCC 15 UK Olive drab all other shades in the SCC british standard range did not have a formal title; brown & dark brown are just loose titles used by the RAF as part of the nomenclature of the paint in the RAF's stores catalogue. TED