Sidewinder

At the end of the day, its your decision... just because other people use them on the roads doesn't make it legal, but I do agree that there are much larger/more inappropriate vehicles out and about on the road, but again that doesn't make a 432 legal either. The reasons why it appears 432's don't comply are pretty clear on this thread and I've made my mind up from that. I think Mike posted letters from Withams and DoT etc.. stating that in their opinion they are not legal. You can't counter that with the argument well I've brought this toy, I should be allowed to play with it because there are bigger vehicles on the roads.. Either way, if you want to buy one be careful if you choose to buy an unregistered one, as apparently some people have had problems getting them registered, or that they can't be registered without bending the truth on the forms.. I'm sure plenty of people do use them on the road, another local owner was running around my town centre in his the other weekend and got himself in the local paper. Now for the amount of usage most privately owned 432's get, I'm sure statistically the chances of anything happening are probably very small, however, I wouldn't like to be the person that tests the law...

Exactly, while most 432 owners have a genuine interest in their vehicles and know and understand how to inspect/repair and maintain their vehicles properly and responsibly, I do get the impression that there are also probably an equal amount of owners out there who don't know and care and don't want to know. They just see them as toys and fun, its people like this who will ruin it for everyone else. Ultimately until someone has an accident in one and the courts decide their interpretation of the law then we could argue about this forever. What I am saying is from what I have read and understood, I wouldn't want to be the person stood in the dock... That said, I also think that to some extent it does depend a lot on the circumstances in which the vehicle is used. The occassional gentle run down quiet roads is completely different and has a lot less potential for harm than 'blasting' around your local city centre every weekend. That still doesn't change the fact however that the steering, braking and parking brake are all done through the same assembly, at least in other vehicles if your steering or brakes fail you still have some (albeit) limited control... but again its all relative, with proper maintenance scenaros like that should never occur in the first place...

What I meant to say was registered, not road legal. Apologies for the confusion, was typing fast and obviously not choosing my words properly. As said, having read previous discussions on here and other research I have come to the conclusion its not worth the risk using the vehicle on public roads. There are lots of potential scenarios, ignoring other road users being the cause of any collisions, the consequences of throwing a track in a crowded street for example aren't worth thinking about. Let alone having the drive couplings between the final drives and steering box fail.. as the manual says: ALL STEERING AND BRAKING WILL BE LOST! Imagine that as your approaching a downhill busy junction.. These days there is no such thing as an accident anymore.. if someone gets hurts, VOSA will not release their grip once they've sunk their teeth in. As much as it pains me to admit, I think CVRT's are the only modern tracked armour capable of being made legal and even then I believe some versions need lighting mods.. While running MV's on the road is fun, is it really worth going to prison for? James

Just because a vehicle is registered or has a tax disc issued to it doesn't mean its legal, it is still up to the owner to make sure their vehicle complies with the law and ignorance is not an excuse. Incidently I own a road legal 432, and am increasingly coming to the opinion that while great fun, the more and more I learn about the law thats its not worth the risk of taking it out on public roads (esp as most people don't seem to have a clue how to drive). But maybe thats just me.. A lot of these vehicles have been released and sooner or later someone is going to have a serious accident in one and while you could sit there til the cows come home saying 'oh it'll never happen to me...' I feel very sorry for the person that it might happen to because once VOSA/the police start having a closer look at these vehicles particularly regarding width and steering/braking systems then if someone gets killed you're not just going to be looking at a points and a fine.

On a similar theme:

I'd also be interested if you've had any luck, my 432 is currently pulling to the left slightly. I've just assumed (and hoped!!) it was my steering that needed adjusting. Now I've tracked down a spanner (1.11/16th) to fit the big lock-nut on the steering boxes, will get them adjusted as see how she drives then... I wonder, if this solution worked for the 434 whether in that case it could have been something like bent track pins/damaged bushes or links..? Fingers crossed it is something simple like steering adjustment and not a damaged track or sprocket needing shimming etc.. James

I think the main problem wouldn't be size but weight. When I had my 432 on a weighbridge she weighed around 14 tonnes unladen. Although some of those stretch limos are very big, they won't even come close to hitting that sort of weight. The only legal way of moving it would be with a low-loader, which granted aren't massively expensive to hire normally if booked in advance, but as an emergency on a Fri/Sat night?

I own a 432 and looked at doing something similar, but off-road, in an abandoned 40acre quarry I have access to. It wasn't long before I gave up the idea. The trouble with the UK everything is such a minefield: insurance, road traffic laws, Construction & Use Regs, health and safety etc.. the government seem to want to tie everything up in red tape and whether you agree with or not, if something goes wrong and someone gets hurt/killed, ignorance is not an excuse and at the extreme end you could well be looking at a prison sentence. A few days of looking into doing it off-road was enough to put me off, let alone taking paying passengers out on a public road. Thats not to say it can't be done, but I think unless your doing it on a big scale its not worth the hassle. As was said in your other thread, what happens when it breaks down in the centre of London, not only have you got the vehicle to get recovered ($$$) but also the 8-10 (drunk) people in the back to their destination... Theres the potential for a lot of headaches and trouble. That was my opinion anyway... James

Always wondered about that 'stretch limo' 432.. would love to know how well it drives/turns.. or not.. James

I believe they had a 432 that had been modified with everything apart from the engine and steering unit. Seem to remember it was a trial run.. i.e. it had all the new extra Bulldog amour, modified hatches on the glacis plate etc.. but still had its K60. James

A few years ago I go a one-way hire from a national hire company, picked the trailer up in Wales where the 'project' was and returned the trailer to my local Peterborough depot. Very handy as it saved dragging an empty trailer half way across the country. As for size, it will all depend what make and model of trailers your local companies stock. I think the trailer I got was a Brian James(?) and was big enough to take a Land Rover 110. Your best option is to get the dimension and weight of whatever it is you want to put on the trailer then phone round some of your local companies. James

I should have dragged my track onto the weighbridge when it was off last month.. but I don't think you'll be far out with that estimate, Andy. With 90 links in each track, assuming it is 750kg in total that works out at 8.3kg per link which sounds about right. I can't imagine each track would be much more than that, certainly no more than a tonne per side. Anybody got a single track link they could weigh and just multiply by 90? James

A pretty similar thing really. When someone fills their car up with the wrong type of fuel, then they have to have the tank drained, either by the AA/local garage etc.. The contaminated diesel/petrol mix is of no use to most people and most garages have to pay a lot of money to dispose of it legally as waste oil. Take them a few containers and most will be happy to give you the 'contam' for free, saves them money and therefore bigger profits..

Exactly, if you're all legal then it doesn't matter. If a few seconds driving past a camera helps gets some of the idiots off the roads then all the better. As said in the 'unwanted visitors' thread I'm sick of working hard all hours trying to make a living while the minority do sod all and have the life of riley while we all pay for them in benefits/higher insurance premiums. Could be worse, at least they're not stopping and manually checking every vehicle, think how long that would take! James

I could be wrong, but as I understand it, if you were to make your own 'mock-up' smoke dischargers out of wood etc, then in order to comply with the VCR Act then (technically) you'd have to paint them in bright neon colours, even though the real things themselves wouldn't.. make sense of that if you can... I think people on the forum have looked into getting some made in the past and apparently the shape actually makes them quite hard/expensive to reproduce. A shame really, as I'd love a set to finish off my 432. As for buying a pair off Withams, I think even if you had the correct licence, they probably wouldn't be interested, the average individual collector to them is a very small fish, compared to some of the international aid agencies etc, that they sell to in bulk.

Withams seem to classify them, rightly or wrongly, as 'firearms' and therefore remove them to avoid breaking the law in supplying them to the general public. As you say, its easier for Withams to remove them altogether and play it safe from a legal point of view. In my experience as well, they don't seem too concerned if their policy's lose them the odd sale, there's always plenty of buyers around. James

Before Christmas around here a forklift was stolen from a local company and during their getaway they ran over an old lady, nothing to do with the forklift or company, just out for a walk minding her own business. They left her lying for dead in the middle of a country road, fortunately if thats the word, she wasn't lying undiscovered for too long. She still spend a few months in intensive care with some very serious injuries.. and why? For some clapped out old forklift. :mad: These people don't care about society or anyone apart from themselves, they have no respect for anything people have worked hard for or the effect their actions have on individuals/groups/companies trying to make an honest living. The police can't/won't do anything, claim on the insurance and they just bump up the premium.. makes you wonder what the point is really...

Work had a visit from the little darlings over the weekend. Drained all the fuel out of all the machinery and emptied several (large) bowsers. They even let the rear tyres down on the bowsers to let all the fuel run to the back so that they could get every last drop... :mad: I should think in total they must have got around 15,000litres minimum :argh: Something needs to be done, we can't let them keep getting away with this. They need to be taught in the only language they understand. I'm sick of working hard trying to make an honest living, so that certain groups can sit back and have an easy ride, while probably claiming benefits as well... we may as well all just hand over wages straight over to them, would save all this aggro!

There was an internet crazy a few years ago.. 2005/06 time if memory serves. It was an animation of a character called Magical Trevor.. "Everyone loves Magical Trevor, Cos the tricks that he does are ever so clever. Look at him now disappearing the cow!" Wonder if it provided the inspiration!

As above, don't want to spoil the fun but I was in the same situation as you. I was planning to take the 432 to a local event to give rides to help raise money for charity.. Didn't take very long talking to people/researching/asking insurance companies to realise it is very dodgy ground. You have to remember that most of the public are idiots, add to that excited/hyper kids etc... well it was enough to put me off. I'm not saying that anything would happen, but you have to remember in this day and age there's no such thing as an 'accident' anymore, someone will be to blame and I personally would not want to be in that position.

Such a waste if its true... might be worth a call to E.M.R to try and save a few parts!

While the B&W plates look the job, I think I'd stick with the modern reflective number plates, which does seem to be what the law requires anyway... Unregardless though while they might not look 'as good' why wouldn't we as a hobby want to try and make a good impression to the various authorities by making sure our vehicles are marked up correctly with modern marker boards/number plates/lights etc.. Lets face it, if we can all maintain MV's then making some kind of easily removed bracket/fittings for these markings to return the vehicle to original for shows etc really shouldn't be an issue.

There seem to be a few people I've spoken to that have managed to register one in the last two/three months. Don't quite know what to make of it all any more...! James

Nice little machine there, shame about the price. As said above always makes me smile when sellers seem to forget that it doesn't matter what they believe something is worth, at the end of the day it'll only ever be worth what people are willing to pay! James

Ray, Just want to say that I must have spent countless hours over the last few weeks reading your posts, very informative, funny and at times moving. Thank you for sharing them, looking forward to your next update! Please keep them coming... James