w896andy

To pick up on the point of age and youngsters, yes this is a ticking time bomb and fast approaching. I’m also involved with my local Steam Railway, the West Somerset Railway is 23 miles long, has lots of trains and is run in the main by volunteers. You need around 30 volunteers a day, every day of the week in the summer months even with around 50 paid staff. Just like Military Vehicle collectors the pioneers who started the hobby are now in their late sixties, seventies and eighties and frankly a large percentage of the overall volunteer numbers won’t be there in 5-10 year’s time as they just won’t be fit enough. It’s not an underestimation to say it’s a crisis which the railway preservation movement are very aware of and acting on now very proactively. The big difference is again the price. I can go down to the railway and play anytime I wish firing a large steam engine worth around £1 million pulling a 8 coach train over some big hills and it only cost me the fuel to drive there and some overalls/boots. I don’t have to buy a vehicle to get to a show at my expense and keep anything maintained. Needless to say the railway is attracting young people, our youngest footplate crew are a fireman at 19yrs old and a 25yrs old driver who have already spent years getting to be qualified and the cleaning gang which is the entry to the footplate has around 30 members currently over half under 30. The railway focuses very much on ‘cost of entry’ and it even provides free accommodation for people travelling a distance who want to stay over for a few days/week.

Maurice, Good to hear from you, firstly I must thank you properly for taking the time and energy to bring that Diamond T tailgate over from Holland to W&P for me a few years back. When I collected it we were in a hurry as my friends were late to get away and I feel I didn’t thank you properly at the time for which I’m sorry. Needless to say if I can ever repay the favour please ask, I haven’t forgotten your efforts, it helped me greatly with one of my projects (which I still have of course). I agree £16k for a good Jeep is not expensive, even a bit more as say up to £18-20k is a figure many people in the real world can live with if the vehicle is perfect as once you own one its cheap, easy to store, repair and keep on the road and very practical so they are not ever likely to tumble in price but they have eased. Last year good Jeeps ready to go were being advertised for fast approaching £30k or more, and that’s a figure that takes it into another territory buyer wise. You are right regarding the £6k to spend on that Jeep, it needs lots to turn it back into a nice MB. Projects as others have said need to be a much lower price I would say usually less than half the cost of a nice one plus your time to complete it. I actually think project value is a part problem of the unrealistic expectations by some sellers, the price difference between projects and finished vehicles needs to be very wide but it isn’t always. Here’s a scenario I’ve seen played out on the internet many times in the last year or two: Lets say it’s a Bren Gun Carrier just to pick on a slightly unusual, not main stream and niche vehicle (but great and we would all want one) Seller 1 has a fully restored one recently finished that he has put life and sole into getting it perfect ‘new out of the box’, he quite fairly puts it up for a top price for buyers who want no work. A few months later seller 2 looks at seller 1’s ad and adds £5-10K more as ‘prices must have gone up’ he states his is ‘restored’ but a closer look finds it’s ‘an older restoration’ meaning it was done 30 years ago, has been to Normandy every year since, raced up and down the beach and generally used so it needs work and most likely another full restoration. Move forward a couple of months and seller 3 has another nice, recently finished one, he looks at seller 2’s ad and says mine is so much better and adds another £10-15k. So now we have an expectation that they are worth approaching £45k and double the price of seller 1’s nice one, you can then add seller 4 with the basket case as a shell with no wheels who thinks it has to be worth £25k as a nice one is ‘selling’ for £50k and puts in his ad, “a bargain at £25k, very rare, restored ones are selling for over £50k”. All these increases seemed to have worked in the past to a point as there were I believe a number of buyers with cash in their pockets but they don’t seem to be selling now. If you don’t think that’s true look at the final bid price on eBay for the last two nice one’s I’ve spotted as that’s the reality of what people will pay.

I’d value people’s views but it seems that the bubble regarding vehicle prices is about to or has burst having just seen yet another auction result (on here) for a Jeep set at £11-13k guide price (usually on the low side) but sold for £10k. As a long term collector I like many others have seen prices soar to a point of being only now open to a rich few, jeeps at this value are manageable and not likely to drop much due to the size/fun/practically of them but prices have clearly settled from last year, its mainly slightly rarer vehicles, bigger and more impractical vehicles which have traditionally been advertised a few thousand more than the last one every time one goes on the market until they are £20-30-40 or 50k plus that appear to be stagnating. I’ve been tracking a number of vehicles in the last year or so now here, in a number of other places including eBay (once you take out the scam ads !!!) and auctions and currently I have seen an increasing number of higher priced vehicles doing the rounds but not selling with some bids which to me seem reasonable and even higher than previous others have sold for but still £10k or more short of reserve. My view is I’m a buyer of vehicles as a collector who has space to house them and a little cash but not at some of the price levels people are asking. Of course last year saw the mega rich with bottomless pockets buy Jeeps at £70-80k on occasions but these were exceptions to the norm and in the same auction a Sherman failed to get reserve. Currently there are 3 vehicles on the market I would buy for my own use at this moment in time which it wouldn’t be fair to name on here but I would buy and pay cash for today but I’m not so desperate I would pay the asking price so I don’t even make the phone call and there must be many people like me out there who like me would push the boat out a bit but not go crazy. I think the number of buyers who have large amounts of cash and want a particular vehicle is diminishing, low interest rates have been around for a long time now so the people who bought a vehicle because their money isn’t earning interest and it’s an investment have spent up, vehicle owners are generally getting older so the numbers of vehicles coming onto the market is increasing and will increase greatly in the next 10 years when the family sell them off as they go to a better place (if I’ve just put you into that category, sorry !!) and we are in uncertain times so there is less money for luxuries. The market in classic cars, tractors and lorries has already reduced and suffered the same as the ‘investors’ leave the market due to diminishing returns. What’s your view ? Or am I wrong and do people see the first BSA M20 hitting £10k and a Bren Gun Carrier hitting £50k and actually selling for that in the not too distant future ?

I agree with you and am thinking of doing exactly the same as you are, just one thing a 9x9 will stand on a hard surface, is that important to you at anytime ? If you do buy one I would welcome you letting me know how you get on compared to a 9x9

No the other way round, the 43 looks to be much better condition, the 43 has combat rims and the 45 Hotchkiss ones and just look at the state of the engine bays in both they are world's apart. Lets hope the air cooled .50 cal on the 45 is deactivated to the new EU level other wise they are now breaking the law, unless its a repro of course and then they have to ensure the buyer meets the VCR Bill requirements, difficult to do when there are hands waving in the air or on line bidding !!!!!!!!!!

Thanks I saw it and there is another D4 on there as well, unfortunately neither have a blade fitted. If I find one to look at any idea of what the big issues are I need to be aware of ?

I did see them and was tempted but the price I felt is too steep given that most likely I would double the complete cost after transport and restoring them and that’s just more than I have allocated funds, especially as they don’t seem to be running. So I didn’t make the phone call and risk making a silly offer and offending the seller. Whilst I would part with my money for one my opinion on the price is of course very subjective or just plain wrong as there most likely has never been any others the same for sale so they will not have a set value like a Jeep would so that’s just my personal view heavily influenced by my budget and the next person would no-doubt happily pay the asking price. All credit to whoever saved them, somebody will hopefully get them back working and looking the part and they would look brilliant on a low loader or at W&P with say the Red Ball Express display (I always stop and have a close look at that setup it’s awesome.) I see the seller would like them to go as a pair, which is fair and I can only hope somebody buys them and they go on the show circuit in the UK for us all to see.

I didn't realise the British made dozers during WW2 I thought they were all US ? Thanks, I've seen the ones on evilbay they look like the sort of thing just need one with a dozer blade fitted, looking on Youtube I've seen some with rear winches fitted, was this common ? Thanks for the other forum info, I'll check them out

I'm looking to buy a Bulldozer, WW2 era or post war that looks wartime that I can use with my Autocar U8144 and low loader trailer which I'm restoring. I'm looking at say a 2-6 ton vehicle and the low loader is 25 foot, 5 foot of which is the swan neck. I only have a rough idea of whats out there as its not an subject I've had much experience of. In the perfect world I would have liked a bren carrier or similar tracked vehicle but they are now of course getting very expensive so my rationale is a dozer is more affordable, but any other ideas or suggestions of something that would look good on a low loader to take to shows would be most welcome. Could anybody please give me their views on Caterpillar/International/Allis Chalmers etc. It would need to have a dozer blade or a loading shovel. I'm happy to consider a finished vehicle or something that needs some work and I would really value ideas or even leads on suitable vehicles that maybe out there. Thanks in advance for any info :-)

Ok so this doesn’t spiral into a slanging match and we don’t upset the Mods lets inject some facts into this conversation to unravel who has not done what. 1. I had an emailed reply from the Key Publishing Group Editor on 26 April, I don’t want to post it here but it clearly states that my concerns would be investigated and passed to the Commercial Director who would “follow the matter up and will speak to the freelance CMV editor” the email finished with “please accept my apologies and rest assured the matter will be investigated as quickly as possible”. I further emailed the Group Editor on the 8th May to follow him up. Neither the Group Editor or the Commercial Director have responded to me since 26th April. 2. I asked a specific question regarding who wrote and titled the article, the answer I received was very clear. You are now stating that this is not the truth. So somebody is not being truthful with me. 3. Clearly you were aware of my concerns by the 8th May but did not respond and are now saying Key Publishing have not passed my details to you when they said they would or asked you to reply to me or agreed that they as Key Publishing would reply to me. Now clearly we are not going to agree on whether the title was appropriate or not and lets skip over the typos and inaccuracies as perhaps our Peers reading these posts should be the judge of good or bad journalism. I would ask you to take a step back and ask yourself: Have I as a customer received good treatment from Key Publishing and CMV Magazine ? You can keep blaming other people but I as a customer see you all as one business. People from that business at all levels are not telling me the truth, blaming each other and not doing what they said they would do. That’s before we get to I’m a customer and I have a complaint which needs somebody to reply in a courteous and professional way. The last part of your post even asks me to message you my email address, again I seem to have to do the running here just to make myself heard. So my last question is: Is this really the way you do business or is it the people above and below you always letting you down and causing the problems ?

Its sad that I had to post on here to attract your attention. Please don't blame the Freelancer (I've kept names out of my posts to date), you were sent my email address, the Director of Key Publishing also had my email address, he also replied to me saying he would come back to me. That was over a month ago now so clearly neither of you thought it was important enough to even give me a reply even if it is that you don't agree and no-doubt if I had not posted on here then my concerns would have remained unanswered.

Ferg, thanks for your reply, I agree, its sad that the likes of Classic Military Vehicle Magazine and Key Publishing in my opinion feel that its ok to put out such headlines and incomplete articles and not be held accountable. The sad fact is it would not have taken any effort to just say sorry to me, but it appears the attitude is that they don't have to and can publish whatever they wish just to get a headline. I would have expected it of some of the daily red top papers but what should be a respected publisher should be better than that, I guess the fact that as they are the only military vehicle magazine now they feel that they can act as they wish, sad times !! :-(

In my opinion Classic Military Vehicle (CMV) Magazine has taken a worrying turn for the worse ! Last month my M3 Scout Car was featured. The freelance journalist came (nice guy) and took the photos and some notes and passed them to the editor who produced the article. The Freelancer and I discussed heading the feature ‘Somewhere in Somerset’ but without telling me anything the Editor published it as ‘Scouting for Boys’ !!! The inference that I bought the vehicle to go ‘Scouting for Boys’ was not lost on a number of people who more than mentioned it to me, this included my wife who happens to be the Headteacher of a couple of Primary Schools who was shocked to say the least. In addition to this the article contains both typo’s and incorrect information that frankly just smacks of lazy journalism. I emailed my concerns to the freelancer, he was also shocked and passed it to the Editor who was on holiday so it was passed onto the MD of Key Publications who emailed back saying he would come back to me. That was a month ago and nothing since just silence, other than I’m aware that the Editor has had a go at the Freelancer stating he didn’t see the issue, its normal to go for a headline, why did he complain (not realising it was my complaint), he was out of order and stating it was normal to take a title from a book written in 1906 (I had to Google it) and use such a phrase in modern times. So no apology, no feedback, nothing just a contemptuous silence from both the Editor and Key Publishing. So please take this as a word of caution if you want to have your vehicle in this magazine don’t make the same mistake I did, get a signed agreement to say that you want to see the article first and have full editorial rights and a veto, if you don’t then anything could happen and it seems the new Editor won’t even respond to concerns or have the courtesy to reply. What makes it worse is he put the Freelance Journalist’s name on the article so he ‘takes the blame’. I even had to buy my own copy, needless to say it’s the last one I will ever buy.

Their were two together at Stoneliegh yesterday. I didn't inspect them closely but 1 looked in average condition and 1 nice looking one. The average one had a £3,800 price label on the other was not priced.:wow:

Well done, nice to see another C10 as there doesn't seem to be many around. I have a 1945 one stuck in the shed which I must get around to finishing off one day.

Now sold

I speak as somebody who has bought and sold military vehicles for my own use for 30 years and somebody who has bought and sold within the motor industry for 35 years including a business selling 1,400 cars a month all online so I hope I understand how to market using online ads. The facts are simple, if you don’t put a price on you reduce the number of enquiries by around 80% and only get people ring who are either already in the trade looking for a bargain so aren’t afraid to call and ask or people who will haggle you down and play hard ball because they enjoy it. Genuine buyers generally don’t like to haggle but understand it’s the done thing so will only ring in the first place if there is a starting point. Regarding price if you put ‘£xxxxx, no offers’ then you had better be both cheap and with a desirable product to sell as people only see the seller as difficult to deal with and again just not pick up the phone. If you put the price too high then you reduce the enquiries as you increase the price above the general market. When we were selling 1,400 cars a month we could produce a pricing curve for each car to ‘control’ how fast we sold them using a mathematical formula, we used this to control stock levels. Of course military vehicles are more difficult as there are far less in the market at any one time but the recent trend of pricing your vehicle £5k higher than the last one advertised only generally reduces enquiries as people don’t see the value. An example of this would be universal carriers, the prices have run up each time one is advertised until the current level of around £40-50k. I bet you not many actually sell for anywhere near the advertised prices currently. The good old fashioned sensible price with ‘ono’ or ‘in the region of’ works as both parties have the comfort of a starting point (or indeed just pay the asking price as I have done a few times because I saw the value for me), this way of pricing makes the phone ring. The seller must decide how quickly they want to sell it and the buyer must decide if they personally see it as value for them, therefore generally the lower the price, the quicker it sells. Unless of course you have a Tiger or Panther to sell in which case the ‘no price and if you have to ask you can’t afford it’ rule applies but generally price it every time. The other reason not to price and ask a high price when asked which I have seen is that you have told the wife you are having a clear out of the far too many vehicles you have and then use the excuse that you have advertised them but can’t sell them so they will have to stay, I’m certain I’ve spoken to a few of them in the past as they clearly didn’t want to sell!!!!

Just to build upon what Brooky has said: No NOVA, no registration so you have to go down that route. I did a GMC in much the same way, you have to gather as much evidence as you can for HMRC to confirm that its been in the country for a long time. Ideally a receipt and a letter from the previous owner stating he owned it for xx years and its been in the UK for that time. As has been stated do it sooner rather than later.

Hi John Thanks for the post but I think I'm sorted now thanks to 'Strike & Return' above. Regards Andy

I need 4 GMC CCKW 20 inch Wheels with or without tyres, restored or not as long as they are complete and straight. Ideally in the South West of England as I live in Somerset but I will travel, Thanks

Hi John Welcome on board, I'm also restoring an Autocar, an U8144T and have a running blog on here, have a look: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?46193-Autocar-U8144-Truck-Pontoon-Tractor-Restoration Where are you in the world and can we have some pictures please, everybody here likes pictures :-D:-D:-D

I changed everything on mine as follows: Engine: a decent mineral based multigrade 10/30 or 10/40 Gearbox, transfer box and axles: EP 90 Steering box & swivel hub: Land Rover hub grease which is a specifically made and introduced years ago for all Land Rovers with old style hubs, its thicker than normal EP90 which is the usual fiment and a cross between oil & grease. Basically it stops most of the leaking that land rover hubs will usually have, of course war time Ross steering boxes and axle hubs also leak in the same way.

A bit of an update on my Autocar U8144. I’ve fitted most of the cab flooring, the driver’s side needing ‘adjusting’ along with the cab floor frame around the engine as the Cummins 6BT is a little wider on this side than the original petrol engine, the passenger side is unaltered. I just need to get the engine cover widened and the throttle pedal relocated and it will be done. I’ve also shortened the clutch and brake rods a little as I had to move the pedal box back (only an inch as it turned out) to miss the air compressor on the Cummins and Mike Gillman modified the thrust bearing carrier a little so there was the right clearance between the modern clutch cover on the Cummins and the original thrust bearing on the Autocar gearbox. Using the original gearbox has meant that with a fabricated front mounting bracket onto the bell housing the original handbrake/transfer box/4wd lever mounting bracket and gear lever are all unaltered, these have been freed off and remounted along with the front winch PTO which sticks out under the gearbox. Next jobs include getting the radiator and rear springs rebuilt and starting to rebuild the rest of the cab, most of the panels are new and have been trial fitted so that shouldn’t take too long and then of course sort an exhaust, make a wiring loom and then perhaps I can run the engine.

John This may or may not be of any use to you as it’s a totally different application. I recently had the cylinder head off of my GMC and found that they have steel shields (or should have) over the top of the inlet valve springs. As a mechanic of the old school I’ve never seen these before but they appear to stop oil being flung over onto the inlet valve and then drawn down the valve stem. I’ve only ever seen valve stem oil seals on OHV engines or nothing at all usually on side valve engines as the oil doesn’t get drawn up. My GMC was a French rebuild that was then stored and never used, it passed through a couple of people before I registered it and put it back on the road so it hadn’t done any mileage or as far as I can see been messed about with since its French army rebuild. It was missing one oil shield with another damaged and a valve guide was worn which I easily sorted. Whilst it didn’t foul plugs it did smoke a little much as you have described so the base rebuild was not perfect, but maybe the French quality control is not as good as the British !!!!! I have attached a picture which shows the shields on the inlets only, in this case they fitted over the valve spring collars and if I didn’t have the head off I could have fitted them in situ. As I say it maybe totally different on a Meteor so this may or may not help you.

I presume that you must also add the 16% fee and 20% VAT to those figures as well :wow: