steveo578

better out than in -IMO any vehicle found in a fresh water source -even marsh,bog or moor land -which are almost always catchment areas, needs recovering before the volitiles leak out, often the attitude and decisions of those in charge of environmental protection has more to do with expressing their power than protecting the environment .

I suspect the Police desk officer will have explained the situation -without the F word:-D. Problem is the 1980s is at least 20years ago as I told my mates wife -who became very impatient with elderly drivers shortly after she had passed her test- (you,ve heard the insults -ol' git, flat cap old f*** etc) think about your father being on the receiving end of that lack of consideration. Yep I know you're talking about me:nut: but at least I neither use or believe the "just for men" adverts :rolleyes::-D Steve

Which force is that then:police: or is it Spok. Goswick ran for nearly 4 years as a air weapons range with huge amounts of stuff both targeted and fired -but little too has been mentioned on the net -it does get a mention in the British Airfield books from the 1970-80s -wonder if this one is too -depends where aircraft were flying from I suppose. This is what I found by looking at the maps-sites on the web- points of interest highlighted in yellow. Steve

There were a couple of Universals cleared off a range near Fallingbostel in the 1990s,which were ex German Border Security and were standard Universals. Normally Universals are rated at 85BHP. A cursory examination of a carrier can result in a erroneous conclusion that some were built in USA as the motors were sometimes US sourced -Ford GAEA andGAE motors. As I mentioned before T16 were to be produced as an improved carrier for Lease/Lend at Ford Somerville near Boston Mas. (in total 13,893 built) as the contract was delayed Ford and the Lease/Lend authorities set up a contract with a nominal finance company called War Supplies Ltd. who let contracts for 5714 Universals. These were built in Canada where production was already on going, these, financed from US funds much like post war offshore military aid (for example British built Centurions for MADP counties such Denmark). As you will understand U.S finance and the use of U.S sourced components lead to confusion. Steve

The target areas almost certainly relate to the tank burial or a air weapons range and worth investigating the Covenanters grave is probably relating to the Civil War or thereabouts Steve

If I recall it correctly wasn't a boxed up Iraqi air force Hawker Sea-Fury found after the 2003 invasion:???:??? Most urban myths starts from somewhere Blackburn Rocs Skuas Fulmars and Wildcats were all pushed off the decks of carriers to make room for better aircraft -probably Spitfires Corsairs and Baracudas. In modern times the US navy off Vietnam in 1975 during the final days of the war pushed HU1s off the decks to allow others to land.

There is a disused target to the west of the harperrigg resvervoir on the North side of the A70 and another site to the east unmarked but shows up 2 locations of a series of roads but without connection to the public road system -like a road for a target. The line of the pylons is the best location -I'm finding it difficult get a grid ref at the moment. I've also found a Crane loch but no Crane Law and for Eddy there's something called the Covenanters grave but its got nothing to do with burials of A13 Mk3s:-D. Steve

At least the Cromwell crew knew what was coming -I wonder if the Comet crew were ready for the breach slopping around :undecided:

The Hawick trial was called Trent -something of a first for the W.D. whose ability to give trials and exercises obvious names is well known, I'm surprised it wasn't called Tweed or Teviot.:nut: Trent was an exercise in the summer of 1942 to test the automotive ability or otherwise of remanufactured (reworked) Churchills in a mixed road/cross country run of not less than 1000miles for each tank over a 6 week period. To this end the 21st Army Tank Brigade comprising 12th Btn & 48th Btn RTR + 145th Rgt RAC, supplied a total of 25 tanks for the trial which started on 12th July 1942 ran for 10 days -then the Brigade was moved out for 10days for another exercise called "Dryshod" on return the trial was ordered to be terminated on or about the original finish day of 23-8-42. So most of the millage was made up by road running. Very few vehicles made the 1000 mile limit but surprisingly although no tank was brakedown free for churchills they did quite well. Historically for tank enthusiasts 22 of these remanufactured tanks were shod with manangese track which tends to answer when they came into use. There was no definative conclusion to Trent. Seems a fairly sensible method of log skiding -I could see the practicality of moving logs using upturned churchill bogies and would think it would be a wheels only set up not dis-similar to the small roller tressles used in wood work shops to support stock being fed through bench saws and thickenisers. Tracks would be impossible as the rolling resistance of churchill track work is fairly high -steel on steel, as to power the wheels would not be powered the log would either be pushed or chain drawn into the blade. Strange how the Poles have this reputation, but who knows it could be true -has anyone ever seen never mind researched a Polish battalion/regiments war diary:???. Could well have some credibility it depends how deep the loch is -normally tests would have a safety cable but if it went deep probably the cable might brake or be cut for the safety of the anchor vehicle crew, in WW2 long before the general availablity of scuba diving - recovery would be too expensive even assuming the Navy (probably the only holders of heavy diving equipment) had men to spare for a recovery, the alternative would be grapples and camels (primative bouyancy bags) which required skill and again great expense and what could be done with the vehicle if it was recovered- the REME come along and write it off as the electrics-ball joints and bearings are regarded as suspect -so off it goes to a range for the PIAT worm. But could be a good training exercise for modern diving enthusiasts.:-)

About then - but had been in the business far earlier and had dealt with ex US service vehicles and repatriated other MAPD financed kit. They are supposed to have brought back a number of M47 from Portugal and possibly others too as they were reputed to have some M26-M46 which would have been very desirable in the US but I've yet to see any proof. Considering SECO was primarily a forestry plant builded it's a miracle anything escaped.

There is a 153 in flying condition in New Zealand -it was recovered in Murmansk and rebuilt eventually ending up in NZ.

Probably the only COSHH training in the Ukraine is how to get toxic ink off your backside after using the risk assesment form as toilet paper:cheesy: another good video Pzkpfw-e:D

I wonder if that photo isn't an early shot of the T34 at Kibbutz Dan.

Does it have a disclaimer about using the vessel in cold weather conditions.:??? Steve

hi Alastair Yes it's a good book -a good opportunity to read it again even at midnight, lots of interesting research especially on the service side -there's still lots to work out about Fireflies for example how and where they were reconstructed - even today possible new stuff came up with Maurice's disclosure of a hybrid being backloaded for rebuild -I was under the impression that only un-issued Shermans were rebuilt due to the need to get value for money for extensve amount of work involved, seems I live and learn. Hope your loyds going well? Steve

Any steel smelted prior to 15-7-1945 is comparatively none radioactive sitting under scapa flow would make little difference -its all slightly radioactive, it is the processing of steel in particular by forcing huge quantities of air through it that builds up the radioactive levels, a major reason why the scapa scrap is valuable is its nickel/chrome and other alloy content. Of interest one of the battlecruisers -either Von Der Tann or Derrflinger was raised just prior to WW2 and remained on the surface upside down with a fouled keel looking like a small green island for the rest of the war -every so often the salvagers pumped some air into it to stop it sinking back. Steve

Might consider fishing if that's the type of fish that can be landed -but it's not a pike:D

That's interesting do you mean T16 (ford built carrier variant) or have you found evidence that Ford built some standard universal carriers- this question has come up before that because of delays in getting the very different T16 production under way Ford contracted a nominally US consortium to build standard universals (ie those with 6 road wheels as opposed to the T16 8 road wheels) however these universals were actually built in Canada. Steve

I can imagine some wit putting in an extensive spares lists -starting complete 17pdr gun, mount shield - if you can't get a complete one build it yourself:laugh: Steve

Fair point, That depends on how you read it - it is too easy to regard the genealogy of the Firefly as a simple progression with MkVs converted first then Hybrids with a few Mk1 of welded fabrication at the end of production. after your post last night I read through Mark Haywards book and I don't come to that conclusion, looking at text tables and photos (and other books) my conclusion is all types were represented at or around mid 1944 with MkVc being dominant. As Maurice says there were Hybrids in ETO from mid June although at that stage the MkVc was the majority- this changed in mid to late 1944 when as the production of Fireflies increased the number of suitable MkVc diminished, the MkVs/M4A4 supplied through August to October 1944 were rebuilds of early M4A4s used to train US forces many were sub standard as they retained Westinghouse Electric traverse gear and were therefore unsuitable for conversion to Firefly. Hybrids although many by the same time were rebuilds had few compatibility problems - welded hull MK1s would have been a mixed bag however -any Mk1 remanufactured which retained either the Westinghouse traverse or the Pressed Steel Car Co. transmission-dynamo layout would be ruled out (if I remember correctly Adrian Barrell mentioned this on another thread). Other tanks supplied in the second half of 1944 were otherwise incompatable such as M4 105s and M4A1 75s which had the PSCC layout (rather than the curved hull restricting stowage) and of course various M4A1 and M4A2 76 and other samples such as T270129 -which as an M4 might have been compatable had it not been fitted with spaced out suspension. The final transfers of M4s (it doesn't say whether they are M4 or Hybrids) to Britain were 90 swapped for M4A1 76 to US forces in theatre in January 1945, but perhaps up to 80 others were transfered from US 12th Army Group for conversion to Firefly were additional to this transfer. There is a noted photo of US marked Fireflies both standard M4c and M4c hybrid (both remanufacted) at a delivery centre with some M22 light tanks which were probably some of the 40 or so those delivered to 9th Army part of Gen. Bradley 12th Army Group in March 1945, these were probably amongst the last Firefly built. Maurice, I would be intersted to know the number of the tank you mention as being back loaded for conversion as I wasn't aware of any vehicles being withdrawn from service. I also note that the number of your tank is a fairly early number for a remanufacture tank -perhaps a vehicle retained for trials being converted. Steve

Fair point, I suppose that could have been part of the thinking behind the 90mm Jagdpanzer cannon and its later conversion to a ATGW carrier.

I don't know -there's a long running T.V. series showing similar processes, brief and to the point, great stuff:D:thumbsup: Steve

Certainly Cents suffered penetrating damage on occasion from the various RPG/hollow charge weapons used by the NVA, one gunner was wounded at his station during Operation Hermit Park in June 1971 but most injuries were caused to crews of tanks with open hatches being hit by rocket spall caused by shooters firing into the trees/bamboo -the use of RPG2-7 as substitute mortar weapons was commonplace in Vietnam, possibly many of the shooters were not trained well enough to use the RPG as a direct fire weapon. Of nearly 60 Cents and derivatives which served in Vietnam with ATF one was completely destroyed and 5 others were backloaded to Australia as being beyond local repair, these losses were due to what would be now classed as IEDs -aerial bombs with a starter mine or control wire detonation, the 2 operational fatalities of Centurion squadrons were due to mines. Neither the Centurion nor RPG2 could be classed as modern design or munition even RPG7 was little more than revised RPG2 -so a modified Panzerfaust 150. In Korea in 1952 a 5th IDG Cent MkIII was damaged by a captured 3.5in bazooka, the rocket hitting near the lip of the drivers hatch at the top of the glacis -it severely injured the driver, Tpr Lewis, who was pulled through into the fighting compartment while the loader/operator -L/cp Wiliamson climbed out of the tank extinguished the fire which had started around the mantlet, then climbed into drivers compartment and withdrew the tank to allow the evacuation of the driver -the tank then resumed its fire support mission- as yet I haven't been able to find what if any reward l/cp Williamson received -pretty sure it wasn't a V.C though:-(. Steve

The Wessington ex RHM exhibit was an Evasive Target Tank note the extra armour around the turret ring and on the hull door -note the No22 mg mount is also missing- also removed from the ETT Comets probably the reason why it was a late release from service Cents took over the ETT role at about that time -but a good number of Comets remained in service even into the 1970s especially at MVEE for example the Comres tank and the Bovington runner. r Steve

I don't think the Germans were too pleased when a US general announced with regard to stopping the soviets that it was fortunate that German urban centres were only 2kilo-tons apart:D