steveo578

1st Czechoslovak Independent Armoured Brigade Group it entered prague of the 18th May 1945.

Yes it is mounted at an angle, the original Praga 6 cylinder inline was a vertical in line which was a Scania Vabis 1664 built under licence by Praga. the likely reason for the angled layout of the Saurer Arbon was that if mounted conventionally it may have impinged on the space set aside for the crew man below the right hatch.

I wasn't aware of an escape hatch -whether it existed on the Hetzer is also unknown to me, however the Panzerjaeger 4 had one directly under the gunners seat -probably just as well as a very lightly armoured internal petrol tank divided the driver from the gunner. as I said I don't know if the wehrmacht Hezter had a floor hatch but possibly the Swiss may have specified it as they had a PzJgr 4 among the specimens under test- it is preserved at Thune. The earlier PZ38(t) -Czech Lt vs 38 had an interesting emergency escape -the panel in the right rear of the fighting compartment could be opened and access through the engine compartment raising the right deck cover and escape:wow: there are several photos of the 38 with it right deck hatch raised after been knocked out. The petrol tanks were also capable of rapid emptying through the hull floor.

Natter Thanks for posting that information shame the 30.5cm bofors may not have survived, regards steve

At least she was awarded a Rigtheous Among the Nations by the Israelis and an Order of the White Eagle by her own nation -either of which is IMO better than a Peace Prize which has sadly become very politicized in the last 30 odd years -I won't mention any awards in particular as we're all entitled to our views and I suppose heros. in the the circumstances of what she did you can't get any braver or heroic very humbling.

They're were only made in Grey and Sand colour -oh you mean socks:-D

Not much difference -different gun StuK40 as used in StuG 3 which had a muzzle brake -they may be differences in the fitting of the Saukopf blende to fit the different weapon -but there were at least 3 different castings in wartime Hetzers. The Swiss contract is similar to the late model but has a slght chin -but again could be a variation of late war castings -after all Shermans had loads of different configurations so casting variations are often down to local manfacture- and Hetzers were built at both CKD and Skoda. The roof is slightly different as the commander moved over to the left hand hatch position and that required an improved observation kit so a small domed topped cylinder shaped hood protecting the periscope replaced the remote MG -a pintle mounted MG was positioned to the rear of the hatch. New aerial mounts for Swiss radios- in similar position to those on wehrmacht vechicles. Hetzer had German Notek and Wehrmatch distance lights -as did Czech vehicles -Swiss vehicles had Swiss lighting system probably in keeping with their local regs. The Suspension was mostly the same although the 4 hole idlers doesn't seem to be a wartime fitting although again Hetzers had a number of idler types 6hole 12hole etc. As spare wheel was often mounted on the right superstructure side. Power unit can be either original petrol CKD unit or Saurer Aubon diesel -86 were re-engined in 1952 to release motors spares for the other 72 -but most survivors seem to be diesels -possibly like many small armies the petrol ones were written off/scrapped first.

The last active G13s in the Swiss Army served until the winter of 1971 when the units using them were converted to surplus Centurion (Panzer55-57) -The standard small army thing of the trickle down effect -as the tank rgt. turned in Cents. for more modern MBT -at that time Pz68. It also has to be remembered that the Swiss forces order of battle is very similar to the Israeli with reserve forces, having an on going commitment. The prime reason for buying the Czech TD was probably cost -although the design had something to do with it -the low profile ambush style weapon and importantly at the time weight. Surplus Sherman 76 would have done the same job with a similar capacity KE weapon but were almost twice the weight. The StuK 40 was still viable in the 1950s, as were similar weapons such as US 76 M1A1-2 and the British 77mm. As a weapon the StuK 40 in the G13 was a weapon at the end of its useful life in 1945 as there were consistant reports that PAK 40s in Wehrmatch infantry btns. were struggling against the IS2 series tanks used in the Soviet shock army spearheads. Conversely the success of the Soiviet spring offensive in January 1945 was abributed to the transfer of numbers of Hetzer equipped Panzerjaeger units from the East to participate in the Ardennes and other "forest" battles anlong the Western German border. -The Swiss probably were aware of the Hetzers value in these battles and how the conditions matched similar conditions in nearbye Switzerland. The Swiss tested a wide range of Afvs after WW2- as is evident from those at the Panzer museum at Thune. They had developed the NK1 on components of their version of the Pzkfw38t) and a more home grown NK2. They also tested the Vickers Alteco 6pdr/95mm armed SPGs -which were a development of the Tetrarch airborne tank. The G13/Hetzer were the first Swiss Afv in battalion strength. A few other nations used Hetzer Post War - Bulgaria had a few but Czechoslovakia had them is strength there were over 300 working examples available within the national boundaries, they also manufacured another 50 examples as ST1 and 50 ST111 unarmed training vehicles. By late 1848 the czech Hetzers had been transfered from the 2 tank btns. down to 2 assault gun rgts. where they were better suited, they were used in the early to mid 1950s in assault gun Anti-tank gun units -along with a few StuG3s and were mustered out into reserve in the late 1950s and out of service by 1960. There are several Pz38(t) tanks knocking around- notably are the Czech tank museums runner - there may still be a LT vz 38 in Banska -the centre of the 1944 Slovak uprising -it used to be run as a flag carrier on the annual liberation day parade. Switzerland has its verson in Thune, Sweden has at least 1 STRM41, Russia has at least one and surprisingly Iran has 2 on display -which are the first of the CKD tanks. There are several in France and there are still possiblities of barn finds as several seem to have been squirrled away especially after changes of the law regarding ex wehrmacht wrecks in private hands in the early 1970s. Bovington have examples of the other Afvs you mention so all is certainly not lost. Steve

Most AVRE with square doors -mk3 & 4 had a spigot or at least were spigot prepared -I've never seen a photo of an AVRE in service without one only in training- the give away are photos 17 19 and 20 which show the remains of the sliding hatch. Steve

I think they were in the the one i got thrown off by the landowner-the one that had the bungalow nearbye. I only got into 2 of the 3 large instalations -the interesting thing was the SWR that had pulled the gun out during the scrap drives was still there. They had some Germanic grafity -the odd eagle and one with a girlie, but i wouldn't say it was the best. It was very hard going as the tunnels were partly underwater - aged 13 my "auntie" became very suspicous when I started to disappear with wellingtons in summer and of course any rope I could find:D. When I last went back in the mid 1970s some of the mirus tunnels/storage areas had been filled with discarded cars and junk. I found some spectactular stuff at one of the command centres - that still had its dummy windows made of wood but nearly 45years ago my memory is fading as too which one, in St Peters Guernsey -which is not good directions is it. The OP towers on the south west coast had the best drawing I've seen- very patriotic and military even in colour, ship ID warnings too -they must have feared firing on the supply ship from St Malo. One of the OP towers at Les Landes actually had anti -Hitler grafity -my father said it was post war as the Germans were too scared to do anything like that - -but i'm not so sure. It said ****** hitler with the heil part of heil hitler struck out and the expletive written above along with a crude(in both meanings) pofile of hitler with an addition:red: -dad wouldn't tell me what it actually said -as i said -a long time ago and a different more innocent world then:) Steve

Strange I thought every one of those tree hugging Nissan electric cars about to solve our environmental problems had a coal or gas powered power station on its back:D Steve

Neil I think you got it susinctly, the current situation is a-political -that is a problem of governance irrespective of who is the government. Too long has governance regarded the public as something to milk -a prime example is the ingenious schemes to exploit new sources of taxation -insurance tax levy was an example -have a drug/crime fueled-distressed society where policing is strained -so the authorities think "let's surcharge insurance" -which people regard necessary because crime is so high -who is responsible for the failure of policing -the same people milking the insured victims, circle complete again. Other taxation is adding to society breakdown, vat at 20% has become a tipping point- people faced with £1 in 5 disappearing into the treasury are defering marginal expenditure -so property isn't being maintained -which will lead to further problems later. Steve

Passed my local Esso a 4pm -came back at 9pm prices had risen by 4p a litre but as Sharky says Steve

I knew some-one wouldn't be able to resist posting something like that -I just wondered which one would do it Steve

At least the Hetzer/G13 had a silencer quite a few WW2 era Afvs had poorly silenced exhaust systems -finally model Pzkfw4s did away with the exhaust box as did earlier Tauchpanzers (swimming tanks). Many of the Sherman had no effective mufflers, often feint artillery barages had to be used to cover armoured movements.

In these days of worms and viruses it would have been less sinister if it just "time to change your password" Chocolate hob nobs now that gets my attention:-D Steve

Or at least photographed and recorded -I remember as a 12 year old being a bunker rat in the Channel island, I'm sure some of it will have been recorded and even some preserved but I wish I had the photographic technology of today back then -Kodak 126 cameras were a big leap forward in their time but one shot flash bulbs and the high cost of film was a great disadvantage in recording stuff.

I'll have to have a look for that:D. I know of the briefly in service SU310 and SU420 (atomic cannons) which where Central Artillery Design Bureau designs but probably built by the Kirovski plant there is an interesting link with a couple of smallish photos of TDT-55 at http://www.militaertechnik-der-nva.de/Galerie/Bildergalerie.html which was posted by michelk on the forum at http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?18340-T54-55-in-NVA-service/page3 on post#22 steve

The syrians are supposed to have 5 x Hummels 15cm sFH on pz111/1V chassis 6 x Jagdpanzer 4 25 x panzer 4 28 x StuG 3 Pic of a StuG 3 at Latrun note this on has a remote MG-similar to Hetzer and a steel armour shield around the commanders hatch -a common addition to Syrian StuG 3 which is odd as the StuG 3 cupola was one of the better German cupola designs -not disimilar to that developed post war for the Leo 1. Steve

They also had StuG 3 and a Hummel or two -the eygptian had a half battery of the enlongated panzer 2 spg with 15cm sIG. I think both Panzerjager 4 and StuG 3 are exhibits at Latrun

Not bad, commanders hatches aren't that common but it will require alot of work -the one on the Red A24 disappeared from the engine bay while it waited recovery from OTA -there was alot more of the A24 than there is of yours -but at least the body is intact. Same one fits A27s as do No1 Mk2 cupolas -the main source is of course Centurion ARV Mk2s. Steve

Doug, Good post Possibly lots of reasons -the British in particular have an admiration for German craftsmanship it's not for anything that "vorsprung durch technik" is used as a slogan by Audi the British suck it up, coupled with the British belief that everything German in WW2 was better than anything the British had -the reason it took 6 years to overcome them -Tirpitz-tiger tank-88mm guns Mercedes-ME109 and FW190 and of course the airfix generation all has a lot to answer for. On the other hand Czechoslovakia was a country to quote our then august PM Nieville Chamberlian that "we know little of and care less" and that goes for czech manufacturing and vehicles, Czech industrial standards in the inter war period were probably the best in Europe on a par with Sweden and Switzerland, but today Skoda is still a laughing stock in this country although pre-war vehicles were better than almost any and outside a few people who knew the trucks Tatra is virtually unknown. -Even today mention Tatra and people will think your mis prouncing Tata. Mind I got to admit I like Rich Oakleys VW Beetle it is realy quite something. Steve

The British WD tests a Lt vz 38 in march 1939 and came to that conclusion -they were very critical of the inability to fire on the move -the gun mount having a lock mechanism which had to be engaged before the main armament was fired -this and the harsh ride would not have been highly regarded by the British Army -not that British tanks were anything to write home about.:-) The Lt vz 38 and through to the Hetzer had a Praga -Wilson gearbox/steering (licenced from Rolls Royce) which had an edge over controlled differential types. This was probably an advantage in the Hetzer as it would improve the limited traverse facility. Steve

Yes there were supposedly 2 used I assume this one is the tank used to fire restrained rockets into ground zero to collect samples while the zone was still extremely hot, the other one went into the zone and collected samples manually through the floor escape hatch. It is said it reversed in so it could accelerate away if the levels got too high. Note the cylinders to pressurize the tank. It is also said that only 1 tank was used for both rocket firing and then to enter the hot zone. Prior to this the 2 Shermans were used for tests of Lanthuimum sphere experiments and according to one story 1 tank was used in the Trinnity test, it was altered with a lead sheath in the crew compartment and pressurization- prior to that the Lanthuimum test relied on distance and standard steel armour as protection against the high level short lived gamma bursts:shocked: however the area used for these tests is still heavily contaminated to this day. Evidently the documents on the disposal are either incomplete or not available. Do you know if the WW2f web site is really compromised -I'm getting a virus warning! or is it just radio-active:-D

I'm sure she decided to disappear after hearing one of her sons recordings:yawn: shame we couldn't have got Justin Beebers mother to disappear before she inflicted her offspring on us> Steve