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Tomo.T

Another J Type on the way !

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On 2/19/2019 at 5:48 PM, nz2 said:

Now with a clean chassis can yo check for any numbers and letters stamped about the top of the King pins.  I have been recording these and trying to relate the sequence of stampings to chassis numbers and years.  The idea being to assist in dating individual front axles that survived as trailers.

 Doug

Here you go Doug. These marks are on the outside top of the axle arms.

First is the KF logo for Kirkstal Forge  (with the K reversed.) on the right LEEDS. The number reads 15191 and this is not the Thornycroft part No. On the nearside is the same stamp but two of the No's 1, I think have been stamped upside down, giving a misleading impression of an' L' and a 'T' ! Perhaps they may have had the apprentice on this job ! I have taken pics so you can make your own mind up.

Tomo

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Thank you for the images. Are there any other stampings about the curved sections to the sides of that face?. I have found marks there. Still somewhat muddling and confusing as to working out any sequence to fit chassis number, dates or what. The more data collected up, the greater the chance of being able to piece some link together.

 Doug

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The only other stamp I could see was a capital M which also appears on the axle and I assume to mean Military ?

I did wonder if the numbers could be a jumbled up date 19.1.15 which would fit ?

Edited by Tomo.T

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Some letters could be that of an assembler or an inspection check as some axles have more than one type of stamp and size. Doug

 

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I agree, its all guesswork I'm afraid. Perhaps we could see some of your examples for comparison?

I had a very close inspection of the kingpins today and there are definitely no other marks.

Edited by Tomo.T

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Although I'm not looking for a pristine finish,  I am out to remove rust pitting from visible areas by strategic use of 2k body filler. The plan is to loose the pits but keep any dinks and dents which are part of the lorrys history. I am on home ground with this, having been involved with traction engine restoration for many years.

Here's a pic of progress so far, also a good view of the modified dumb iron previously mentioned.

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An alternative for filling rust-pits is knifing putty. I think it is really intended for scratches, but it works OK for pitting and can be used straight out of the tube without mixing. It's more like a very thick paint than a hard-setting filler. 

It is one of those things that has many names,  knifing putty, stopper, glazing putty (and that last one can really cause confusion...) 

You can get Holts Cataloy from Halfords, though I have a huge tube of something else picked up at an autojumble that seems rather better. 

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My preferred weapon for this purpose is U-POL Top Stop Gold, now part of the Easy 3 range of 2k fillers. The problem with single pack stoppers is that they are air drying and thus not suitable for anything other than minor blemishes. I much prefer the positive chemical cure of 2 pack. It does not shrink or fall out and will dry in depth.

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1 hour ago, Citroman said:

Other question doesn't this type of wheel collect dirt inside?

Yes they do. More worrying is the inability to drain water collected within the wheel. This is a bit of a design fault and can lead to serious corrosion in some cases. Despite this, most of these wheels have survived well beyond their expected life.

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Strange indeed, i had an old Michlin wheel that was reinforced with discs rivited on there but this was completely corroded. I gave it to a friend who did hang it on his wall as decoration ;-) Good luck with the rebuild.

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Filling and priming the chassis continues, also the front springs have been temporarily replaced in order to get the job mobile in preparation for a potential move to better premises.

As far as I can discover, the Military J type was not normally fitted with a rear towing hitch, but 2393 has a solid tow bar with central hole, presumably intended for towing something ?

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Posted (edited)

I recently discovered the remains of an 'A' series chassis with a very similar fitting. the question is, was the tow bar on 2393 original or a later addition. Any Thornycroft experts care to comment on this ?

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Edited by Tomo.T
Similar not same

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Posted (edited)

Very satisfying to get some Service Colour on the job. This colour was matched to the inside of an original storage box dated 1917. The colour  spec has been recorded and is available from Craftmaster.

The second picture also shows the short dumb iron as originally supplied by Thornycrofts. This one is a rare survivor !

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Edited by Tomo.T
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More progress in detail. Painting has been a bit sporadic due to the varied weather conditions. Some parts are waiting on Stan for some more welding.

Changes are happening and I have been to see the most incredible workshop, where the project will be moving, hopefully next month.

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Posted (edited)

Warning, this will be a long story in several instalments !

A few years ago I was asked to research a likely unit for John Marshall's Thornycroft J Type.There being no surviving records of actual vehicle placements in the Great War BEF. Being an early 1915 model it would have been amongst the first ASC unit arrivals on the Western Front, which utilised this make of vehicle. This helped to narrow down an otherwise Herculean task. After much studying of war diaries I eventually settled on 60 Coy (MT) ASC who were involved from the start as 1 Divisional Ammunition Park. The diaries of this Unit were particularly well nourished with information and I was able to extract some actual WD No's of J Types under their command. This unit were actively swapping out non Thornycroft lorries until they had a full compliment of 83. ( This practice was officially sanctioned to ease parts storage. ) They also had a colourful unit badge which I endeavoured to copy onto the scuttle plate.

This badge was noticed by the Bursar of Pocklington School when we attended the Remembrance Parade in 2018 and he informed us that he was once the 2nd in Command of our adopted unit ! This came as a bit of a surprise as the diaries had indicated that the unit was disbanded in 1918 and although elderly, he was no centenarian. He replied that 60 Coy. RASC had been reformed after the War, had then become 60 Sqn. RCT and were in fact still in existence as 60 (CS) Sqn. RLC. based at Abingdon,  Oxfordshire.  That is an amazing coincidence as I live about 8 miles away !

To be continued.

 

 

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Edited by Tomo.T
Spellin.
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Sorry to keep you in suspense.

The next development was a phone call from the 2 IC  60 Sqn. RLC. Wanting to know more details of John's J type. He had been contacted by our friend the Bursar. It transpired that the  unit was due on exercise not far from John's place in Yorkshire in two weeks time. Would we be able to bring the lorry and meet the guys in the field, as it were ? " Oh yes," I said "I'm sure that could be arranged ! " Two weeks later we were ushered into the camp in the middle of a full tactical exercise 'Somewhere in Yorkshire' ! We were welcomed by all except the weather, which was proper Yorkshire. The Thorny was much admired although somewhat dwarfed by the Squadrons' MANN 10 tonners.

The CO came to have a look and we were introduced, judging my moment had arrived, I went for an all time cheeky ask." Would you have any room for a similar project at Abingdon ?" I asked. " Yes." He said," I don't see why not."

Final instalment tomorrow.

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Tpmo . . . Can you enlighten us in the meaniung of DSC and ASP?  Thanks!

It certainly would be a great addition to the site if someone could provide us of unit insignia for this period!

Al

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Divisional Supply Column  

Ammunition Sub Park

 

Look out for the new book on British & Dominion markings and insignia 1914-18 by  Rod Dux & Mike Hibberd. Has been reviewed on this site.

Tomo.

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Posted (edited)

The above events took place in November and it has taken until now to obtain the necessary permissions to gain access to 4 Reg. LAD workshops, where the REME look after the vehicles of 60 ( Close Support ) Sqn. RLC amongst others. Moving day for 2393 coincided with the CO's leaving do and John Marshall  brought down his 'J' type to transport the CO from his farewell ceremony to the gates of the camp. An honour and a privilege for us and the first military duty for J type 2282 for some considerable time. We were also accommodated in the Officers Mess !

A few pictures from two busy days. The Mushroom sign is the current emblem of 60 Sqn. ( Fed on bullsh*t and kept in the dark !) As you can see there is no shortage of space in the workshop which was previously a WW2 aircraft hanger with the RAF. In addition the REME lads have provided a storage cage for parts and a work bench with vice. Let battle commence.

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Edited by Tomo.T
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Looks like your stars are aligned! Ian

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Which of the two Sayings apply?

The "Sun shines on the Righteous" OR "The Devil looks after his own!"

Whichever one it is, I am very pleased for you Tomo!

Tony

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