British WW2 10 cwt GS Trailer

[austintilly]

Nice to see work on another trailer. Arjan,is this the same trailer that was in the MLU thread of some years ago ? What make is it Reynolds,SS? - Mortar or GS ?

 

This is indeed the same trailer. It's a GS.

[fv1609]

Is this one any good for you?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ex-WD-Tail-Lamp-Side-Window-numberplate-lamp-NOS-/270827788832?pt=UK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Other_Vehicle_Parts_Accessories_ET&hash=item3f0e981a20

[David B.]

Thanks for the tip-off Clive. Similar but not quite, the earlier Lucas T1 is smaller but on a similar teardrop shaped bracket. The ones for sale are post war manufacture I think and I've used them in the past for (detachable) number plate lights.

 

What I really need to find are the plugs fitted to the end of the WW2 trailer wiring harness which go into the vehicle mounted trailer sockets. They are a two pin bayonet fitting about 15cms diameter. Ones that I have seen are brass with a bakelite end. Does anyone have a lead to these plugs - I suppose there might be something modern available.

 

David.

 

 

Is this one any good for you?

[austintilly]

Just found this GS-trailer in a village nearby. It was converted after the war to a tipper, but reasonable complete (and I had some parts from another rescuemission).

Two id-plates were still present. But not the manufacturer :-(

 

There are indeed some small differences to my other GS-trailer.

 

Edited January 18, 2012 by austintilly

[David B.]

Nice pictures Arjan ,

 

- At first glance the mudguards you have fitted are of the the Orme Evans/TEC squared off pattern but looking closer they seem a little too flimsy. Do they seem "home made" to you ?

 

The way the body stops short of the chassis front seems to be a Reynolds/SS peculiarity and one of those would be my guess for manufacturer.

 

I'm beginning to gather some info for chassis numbers which might help when a bit more comprehensive.

 

The tow hitch assembly is of course the very type that we are looking for and for which all leads would be welcomed.

 

David.

[austintilly]

The mudguards are homemade. They had to fit other mudguards, cause they converted the trailer to a tipper. Herefore they removed the springs and placed the axle a bit forward.

[David B.]

Arjan - A Reynolds or SS Mk2 would still be my guess.

 

I'm hoping to correlate the available information on these trailers to try and shed a little light on the different makers,differences between the two marks and detail differences of application eg. mortar, GS etc.

 

I have looked at a 1966 reprint of the WW2 Illustrated Parts List which illustrates some differences but does not attribute them to certain makers.

It does also make a couple of mistakes with captions which confuses the issue a bit.

 

Could I ask anyone with any photos of these little trailers to post them together with any definite information from the data plate of maker,mark and application. Chassis or census numbers would be particularly useful.

 

We have now located a correct tail light and a convoy light for our trailer but are still looking for the tow hitch assembly,(later type with integral lifting arms), hub dust cap, and support legs. To fit to the Jeep we still need the British trailer socket and of course the plug which fits this socket.

 

David.

Edited November 3, 2011 by David B.

[Great War truck]

David

 

This water tanker came out of a wood outside Oxford. I regret not buying it. I think it was built by SS. Would it have had any common parts to your trailer:

 

 

 

[austintilly]

Isn't this watertrailer an airborne waterbowser?

 

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?20437-British-WWII-water-tank-trailers

 

where is that trailer now? Is it saved?

[David B.]

David

 

This water tanker came out of a wood outside Oxford. I regret not buying it. I think it was built by SS. Would it have had any common parts to your trailer:

 

 

 

Thanks Tim - I knew that I should have gone to that sale !!

 

The trailer looks like the 100 gallon water bowser which Arjan has pictured in the post below yours. He has also put a link to the post by John Corden where there are a series of pictures of his lovely little water tank trailer - worth looking at.

 

My understanding is that the maker of the " Trailer 10cwt 2whld. Lightweight Water 100 galls." was Tasker. It looks that there was only one contract from X6201129-X6203268 although at least one reference source seemingly mistaken, attributes manufacture to SS.

 

The common parts between the 10cwt Lightweight and the 10cwt GS like ours are support legs, hubs and wheels,and the tow hitch assembly.

 

We are of course still looking for the hub dust cap and tow hitch assembly.

 

David.

Edited November 6, 2011 by David B.

[les freathy]

David at last here are some images that might help

cheers

Les

[austintilly]

I never noticed it before, but now I see where the T-sign is located on the 10 GS trailer. I've placed it on my trailer on the wood of the tailgate.

[Richard Farrant]

I never noticed it before, but now I see where the T-sign is located on the 10 GS trailer. I've placed it on my trailer on the wood of the tailgate.

 

Recently looking at an Electrical Repair trailer as in the first pic, and the T plate was fixed to the canvas cover. This is how it left the army.

[David B.]

Very nice pictures Les Thanks very much.

 

With the exception of the Trailer GS No 1 the tow hitches illustrated show the type which we are looking for, with the lifting arms mounted on the hitch as part of the assembly.

 

The GS No1 pictured has the earlier type of assembly where the lifting arms are mounted on the trailer draw bar. I have picked up some reference material but I have not yet seen the differences between the makers properly described - do you have anything on this?

For my two pennorth the GS illustrated is a Reynolds or an SS.and the Mortar Ammunition carrier an Orme Evans or a TEC.

 

David.

Edited November 7, 2011 by David B.

[austintilly]

I have 1 tow hitch Mk1 as spare.

 

 

for my "new" trailer I need the two tailgate-hinges.

[David B.]

I have 1 tow hitch Mk1 as spare.

 

 

Close but still not quite close enough Arjan.

 

The type we are still looking for is as previously illustrated is the type with the lifting arms as an integral part of the hitch assembly. The later hitch also has a large towing eye of 2 13/16 internal diameter thus allowing use with the standard WD drawbar and enabling it to be towed by vehicles other than the Jeep and the early 15cwt truck's pin and pintle.

 

Arjan - as a matter of curiosity,could the earlier hitch be fitted to a later drawbar or vice versa? Are the fixing holes the same spacings ?

 

David.

[austintilly]

I have 1 tow hitch Mk1 as spare.

Arjan - as a matter of curiosity,could the earlier hitch be fitted to a later drawbar or vice versa? Are the fixing holes the same spacings ?

 

 

This hitch belonged to my restored trailer. The original drawbars are still on the frame...

Years ago I found the Mk II hitch, and this one is mounted on the trailer.

 

The answer is yes..... the fixing holes are the same.

 

On the 'new' trailer is an extra wheel fitted, just by placing an extra layer onder the hitch. So in theory this could be done with drawbars.

[Ian L]

I have 1 tow hitch Mk1 as spare.

 

 

for my "new" trailer I need the two tailgate-hinges.

Hello Arjan I am looking for a hitch like this one, do you have one for sale please. Thanks Ian

Edited January 12, 2012 by Ian L

[austintilly]

We just couldn't keep away from the trailer :-)

 

The tailgate is removed and also the frontwheel is replaced by a new support leg.

 

Question that came to mind, is if these reflection triangle are original. The round reflector-parts look very simular to those of the T-sign.

 

[David B.]

We just couldn't keep away from the trailer :-)

 

The tailgate is removed and also the frontwheel is replaced by a new support leg.

 

Question that came to mind, is if these reflection triangle are original. The round reflector-parts look very simular to those of the T-sign.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Arjan,

 

I'm sure you have seen this trailer belonging to one of your countrymen,it shows the T plate. There is also a picture of the T plate itself (courtesy of Clive Elliott),which is correct for the trailer.

 

As far as I'm aware the triangular reflectors appeared in the 1950's. I have seen a period advert showing them,they would be steel I suppose.

 

I have a T plate that is missing the red reflectors,I will be looking for these and must measure their exact size. Has anyone any experience of replacing these ? Alternatively I would be interested in a complete T plate if there is one available.

 

What other parts are you looking for ? We are starting work now on our trailer and may have some duplicates available soon especially chassis parts, some of which are common to the Lightweight "airborne" trailers.

 

David.

Edited January 19, 2012 by David B.

[Artifficer]

Hi all

I note that several members are after Lucas twin pole sockets & plugs for airborne trailers, they are available from Paul Beck Vintage Car Supplies on the web.

Hope this helps

Robin Grainger

Artifficer:D

[David B.]

Virtually all the missing parts have now been located including the vital tow hitch and so work has commenced on the dismantling of the trailer. Its shown in the first picture with the draw bar balanced on the tow hook of its intended towing vehicle.

 

The maker was Orme Evans, a Wolverhampton firm and is a later No 2 model probably 1944/45 from a mixed contract of GS, 4.2" Mortar and Mortar ammunition carrying trailers. This particular one was thought originally to be a 10 cwt GS model due to its having an unfitted interior and a hinged rear tailgate,the Mortar and ammunition carriers have fitted interiors and drop down headboards only.

 

The first stages of examining and probing the woodwork revealed a second layer of planking laid over the original floor and the combined attacks of dry rot and woodworm makes it look likely that all the timber will have to be replaced and that a suitable softwood needs to be sourced. At the moment "Southern Yellow Pine" has been suggested and anyone with experience of rebuilding a wooden body is invited to comment. Its also obvious that a large number of Whitworth coach bolts will be required.

 

Along with the first setback comes the first mystery. From what little documentary and photographic record of these trailers that I have seen the GS version seemed to have a drop down tailboard only,our trailer has both a hinged headboard AND tailboard.

 

The headboard has the reinforced "slides" illustrated in the parts book as being fitted to the mortar ammunition carrier and which I suppose was to protect it and facilitate the unloading of heavy ammunition boxes -it is undoubtedly original.

The tailgate looks to be of the same professional factory construction in the same timber,using the same fittings and contemporary to the rest but with very slightly different hinges to the front panel.

 

The question is, was the GS tailboard arrangement :-

 

a) Original with both moveable head and tail boards.

 

b) Added at the factory,perhaps to a Mortar trailer already under construction ,as a result of a change in WD contract requirements.

 

c) A REME workshop conversion to increase the number of load carrying trailers versus Mortar trailers.

 

The whole body looks original and all built/modified at the same time and I would welcome any comments on or illustrations of these trailers especially in service. Any observations or pictures from owners of these trailers would be equally welcome.

 

Thanks,

David.

 

PS You can see we are lucky enough to have the T plate but all the reflectors are faded badly,does anyone have any experience of replacing them ?

 

 

[cordenj]

Hi David,

 

An interesting and unusual spec for a 10cwt GS, I think your suggestion of a REME Workshop conversion may well be correct.

 

Re T-plates: I have restored a couple of these and in both cases found that thoroughly cleaning/polishing the front and back of each reflector, combined with repainting the plate, made it reasonably presentable. The one is this photo didn't look very different to yours when I started:

 

 

 

 

 

There are several different versions of these T-plates and there seems to be two mains types of reflector:

one looks like a red "Rowntree's Fruit Gums" and has a very knobbly outer surface, the other type has a smooth outer face and the rear is faceted to catch/reflect the light.

In your photo itt looks like you have a full set of the latter type which are easier to polish up.

 

 

Cheers,

john

[David B.]

Hi David,

 

An interesting and unusual spec for a 10cwt GS, I think your suggestion of a REME Workshop conversion may well be correct.

 

Re T-plates: I have restored a couple of these and in both cases found that thoroughly cleaning/polishing the front and back of each reflector, combined with repainting the plate, made it reasonably presentable. The one is this photo didn't look very different to yours when I started:

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]55939[/ATTACH]

 

There are several different versions of these T-plates and there seems to be two mains types of reflector:

one looks like a red "Rowntree's Fruit Gums" and has a very knobbly outer surface, the other type has a smooth outer face and the rear is faceted to catch/reflect the light.

In your photo itt looks like you have a full set of the latter type which are easier to polish up.

 

 

Cheers,

john

 

 

Thanks for the encouragement John.

 

I'm still hoping that someone can come up with some wartime pictures of these trailers in use. I would also like to hear from anyone else who has a GS or Mortar Trailer with any more information or photos that they can add.

 

David.

[Artifficer]

Virtually all the missing parts have now been located including the vital tow hitch and so work has commenced on the dismantling of the trailer. Its shown in the first picture with the draw bar balanced on the tow hook of its intended towing vehicle.

 

The maker was Orme Evans, a Wolverhampton firm and is a later No 2 model probably 1944/45 from a mixed contract of GS, 4.2" Mortar and Mortar ammunition carrying trailers. This particular one was thought originally to be a 10 cwt GS model due to its having an unfitted interior and a hinged rear tailgate,the Mortar and ammunition carriers have fitted interiors and drop down headboards only.

 

The first stages of examining and probing the woodwork revealed a second layer of planking laid over the original floor and the combined attacks of dry rot and woodworm makes it look likely that all the timber will have to be replaced and that a suitable softwood needs to be sourced. At the moment "Southern Yellow Pine" has been suggested and anyone with experience of rebuilding a wooden body is invited to comment. Its also obvious that a large number of Whitworth coach bolts will be required.

 

Along with the first setback comes the first mystery. From what little documentary and photographic record of these trailers that I have seen the GS version seemed to have a drop down tailboard only,our trailer has both a hinged headboard AND tailboard.

 

The headboard has the reinforced "slides" illustrated in the parts book as being fitted to the mortar ammunition carrier and which I suppose was to protect it and facilitate the unloading of heavy ammunition boxes -it is undoubtedly original.

The tailgate looks to be of the same professional factory construction in the same timber,using the same fittings and contemporary to the rest but with very slightly different hinges to the front panel.

 

The question is, was the GS tailboard arrangement :-

 

a) Original with both moveable head and tail boards.

 

b) Added at the factory,perhaps to a Mortar trailer already under construction ,as a result of a change in WD contract requirements.

 

c) A REME workshop conversion to increase the number of load carrying trailers versus Mortar trailers.

 

The whole body looks original and all built/modified at the same time and I would welcome any comments on or illustrations of these trailers especially in service. Any observations or pictures from owners of these trailers would be equally welcome.

 

Thanks,

David.

 

PS You can see we are lucky enough to have the T plate but all the reflectors are faded badly,does anyone have any experience of replacing them ?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]55930[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55931[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55932[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55933[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55934[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55935[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55936[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55937[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55938[/ATTACH]

Hi David One of my mates has restored a 10cwt trailer from the chassis up, we found that the T & G planks and timbers where all Ash hardwood even in wartime.

Although Ash is expensive it wouln't warp or shrink if it's well seasoned. Good timber merchants should be able to source Ash, we have several in Surrey and one specialest bespoke kitchen maker who will cut & plane timber to size.

If there is someone like that in your area it might be worth haveing a word!!

Regards

Robin