julezee001 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Having had some fun trying to make my Mk1 Militant brakes work evenly for an LGV test, I was wondering if anyone has had the need to shim their similar brakes to make them even? Last year the examiner couldn't work out how to test the brakes on the rollers, and so used the Tapley meter. Fine! This year a different examiner used the rollers and found imbalance on the rear axle. As explained elsewhere the rear brakes on the Militant are simple but not a great design. Obviously fine for a Tapley test but never designed for the rollers. On my Militants rear axle, I can only think that the "S" cam which operates the brakes on the o/s is set low as it has a home made shim of about 3mm to raise the leading (top shoe) to bring it into contact at the same time as the trailing shoe. I have made a similar 2mm shim for the n/s which had the trailing shoe doing nothing with the leading shoe binding the drum. In service it wouldn't have mattered as the shoes would have eventually worn even, but in my hands the shoes would take a lifetime to bed in that much! Fingers crossed for a voluntary brake test 8.40 Monday morning, then hopefully sneak straight round for a re-test! Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 As an update to my saga of brakes and LGV test: still no good on Monday for a voluntary brake test. O/s on no.3 was better than ever, and n/s had dropped 200kg from the last test after my technical measuring and shimming! Took shim out today.... Booked for another vol. test tomorrow (Wednesday), but spent a couple of hours at a local transport firm on their rolling brake tester. They were really helpful, and tested my brakes when I arrived, and then let me re-adjust them, and tested them all again for a tenner, Bargain! Adjusted n/s no.3 to a slight bind, and slackened o/s a bit, and have a service brake of 1775kg and 1934kg respectively, giving only 8% imbalance. Hopefully this will be repeatable tomorrow for the test? As an aside, a friend has just declared his Scammell Crusader M.O.T. exempt as a vehicle used to carry display items only, i.e. his T54! Taxed it etc. no problem, great. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 you'll get there in the end, you'll be sick of taking the wheels and drums off by now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Certainly bored of taking them on and off. The wheels,and drums are all rather heavy as you know; all have been off fairly recently, and so there isn't a real fight, but it all just takes time and effort. Fortunately I haven't had to buy any parts, but despite this it's cost almost £400 to get the truck through the test this year, with test fees, fuel, and cash for the other 2 commercial brake tests. Today I finally got an M.O.T. pass, so we will go to the shows! The test centre still made a mess of the voluntary test, coming out with a fail, having programmed the Militant as post 1968! Luckily the imbalance was gone (low enough at least) so I managed to pursuade them to re-test it straight away as a proper test, which it passed. Hoorah! I just need to make and fit a folding frame for a double matress in the box body to keep the better half on side, ready for the weekend after next, and re-stock the tea, coffee, biscuits and beer, which has all been robbed for the workshop! The most important job now is to replace all 3 fuel filters, as I ground to a halt on the way to the test almost at the top of the main hill into Hastings on the A21. S**t! Kept her going just, and she picked up and was fine after a couple of minutes which felt like ages. All together a better day, so now I can book W&P and other shows knowing I'm fully legal again for another year. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 True dedication Jules ! Exactly what I would have expected from you ! Very well done mate ! :yay::yay::yay::yay::-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 The most important job now is to replace all 3 fuel filters, as I ground to a halt on the way to the test almost at the top of the main hill into Hastings on the A21. S**t! Kept her going just, and she picked up and was fine after a couple of minutes which felt like ages. Jules Jules, many years ago Pete Gaine had a Militant with the same problem which took ages to find. Apparently there is a small gauze filter within the injection pump that can clog in addition to the main filters. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 passed, thank **** for that. Perhaps you should book another test for about 6months time, seeing as it takes you that long to get a pass:) Nice to know that you are on the road again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Jules, many years ago Pete Gaine had a Militant with the same problem which took ages to find. Apparently there is a small gauze filter within the injection pump that can clog in addition to the main filters. Thanks Mike, I'll have a look on the weekend, when I've caught up with all the proper work! This is the best thing about HMVF, the huge well of knowledge that is now accessible with a few taps on a keyboard. Great! I'll let you know what I find. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8 bubba Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 only just seen this thread for the future it might be worth getting the shoes re prophiled at almost any truck brake retailer they will then all be the same and will rid you of needing shims and cure your imbalance for good strange how the minestry no longer alow the tapley meter until that is the rollers are bust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 I'm hoping that having had a major go at the brakes this year they should be ok for the next few years. Next year I'll test the brakes first at the local transport company, before going for a proper test. The only worry is contamination of the shoes from leaking hub oil seals, although the o/s rear shoes were filthy 5 years ago, but having cleaned them thoroughly with brake cleaner, anjd replaced the bellows seals, they have been consistantly better than the clean n/s ones?? Having not been a commercial vehicle mechanic I hadn't heard of shoe profiling. As I said previously, the only shoe with a shim now is the o/s rear axle leading shoe which sits about 3mm from the drum without it? As the shoes wear, the adjustment of the rods can run out of thread. At that point there were specific shim blocks to fit and regain adjustment on the rods. At the rate the brakes wear currently I'm fairly confident that it will never be my problem, and I have a couple of new spare sets of shoes too! Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Having not been a commercial vehicle mechanic I hadn't heard of shoe profiling. Jules, Back when I started at the Command Workshop, we always had a large number of Militant Mk1 in for repairs and overhauls. I do recollect there being a shoe profiling rig that was used on the vehicle. I can only presume it was set up on the hub so that the shoes were concentric with the drum once profiled. Never used it myself, it could have been on trial at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 Presumably all the shoes at the time were asbestos based, so re-profiling was probably not a great job to have done with the dust etc. I am also aware that the shoes fitted and the spares I have are also original too! So I am careful with them. As an aside has anyone else with a Mk1 Militant had a roller brake test recently either voluntary or otherwise? Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 I think I found the problem with the fuel this afternoon. My Militant has 3 fuel filters fitted, the first a standard tractor/Landrover type with a glass sight bowl fitted, which replaces the tiny original moisture trap? The glass bowl had clean diesel and a tiny amount of sediment in the bottom. The filter was a different story. Last changed on 8/4/06. Yuk! It looks like poop, and felt like thin jelly. I suspect the truck faltered on the way to the test as it sucked a lump up the pick up pipe, and then recovered when it reached the filter housing. I think I might drain the tank and try to remove any other floaters? The other pair of the same type of filters have replaced the original single one in the n/s dash, and both of these were fine but were change anyway. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 I think I found the problem with the fuel this afternoon. My Militant has 3 fuel filters fitted, the first a standard tractor/Landrover type with a glass sight bowl fitted, which replaces the tiny original moisture trap? Jules, One of the official EMER mods was changing the old cotton bag type of filter to the CAV renewable canister type as you have, which was a good move as the originals were next door to useless in filtering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 when would this mod have been done? Mine still has the original cloth filter on the bulkhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanedu14 Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 the filters being in such a state of dirtiness, I advise you the demounting of your tanks to clean them and there to make treatments of the walls interne.en France there exists treatment of mark RESTOM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 My brother first replaced the original filter in the cab for the twin CAV type shortly after getting the truck on the road about 13 years ago, and then replaced the ridiculous water trap (little bigger than a thumb) about 10 years ago with another filter and water trap. I changed the bottom bowl from aluminium to glass about 3 years ago, because I thought it would show impending problems. How wrong could I be? In the T.A. I've had similar problems with Bedfords MJ/MK in the past, after a change in policy, the local servicing teams were sacked, and it became an in house responsibility for the unit. This ofter meant that vehicles that had been fully serviced every 6 months were potentially not done for up to 3 years. Twice I slowed to little more than a crawl on motorways/ autobahns because of blocked fuel filters. Luckily both times I had spares on board to fix the problem. Germany was the scariest as REME following at the rear of a convoy travelling at 12mph up the motorway inclines, with the commercial vehicles thundering up behind at 80+mph. Hazards or dart for the hard shoulder? Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 when would this mod have been done? Mine still has the original cloth filter on the bulkhead. Simon, I would think yours being a gun tractor, it would have been disposed of before this mod instruction came out. At a rough guess I would think late 1970's, when we had a large number coming in for refurb, (mostly GS cargo versions). The cloth filter would have been reasonably acceptable at the time, but with refuelling by jerricans, a lot of dirt gets into the system over a time, and diesel left in for long periods can deteriorate and gel. So cleaning a tank out and filtering / straining the diesel before refilling would be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 yes, I could see that filling out of jerry cans etc, over time you'd be bound to get some trouble. One of the early jobs on the militant was to take the tank off and clean it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 I have to confess that as far as I know my tank hasn't either been taken off or drained in the last few (17 ish) years, so I might have a go after the Cuckoo Fayre. Luckily travelling there with my Explorer too, so we will get there and back one way or another! Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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