paul connor Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 when driving, sometimes.. not all... you hit a bump and get a violent shake which can only be cured by bringing the vehicle to a hault. This had kind of gone away but now its back with vengance. Today I replaced the steering Relay with hope that it was that, but no. So next stop is the steering swivels. a few questions if you can answer? 1.How do I check that they have play? 2.How do I fix if they are worn? Is it just new seals and adjust? or new housings? I'm sure I can do the mechanicals I just like to ask people who would have done the job to make things easier. It passed the MOT with no issues and I can see and feel no play in the steering joints? tyres are fine and cant see anything other than the swivels and steering box left(has oil in) mant thanks as usual Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Paul You would have to have very bad swivel bearings to feel play in them. You can check similiar to wheel bearings, jack up and support vehicle pull at top and bottom of wheel. Get someone to stand on the brake to elminate play in wheel bearings. If it's a coil sprung model it's a relatively simple and cheap job to replace top and bottom swivel bearings. Top railko bush on leaf sprung can be awkward to remove. You'll need a spring balance and shims to set up the preload on the swivel with all steering linkages and swivel oil seal removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poptopshed Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I would agree and say start with wheel bearings and steering ball joints. I can also be caused by a loose wheel, checked your nuts recently? :cool2: And exagerated by a wheel out of balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I would look at the tracking. Is the shimmy worse (or started) by braking? If a vehicle is designed with toe-in, and the track rod is ahead of the axle, the idea is under load the wheels try to straighten. However on braking, Particularly if the front brakes are doing most of the work, the wheels get forced in to give even more toe in. Are you on aggressive tyres or bargrips? If so is the tyre pressure adequate, and is the wear pattern even. Sometimes, if under deflated, or unevenly worn the inner or outer bars tend to have a better grip on the road, than the bars on the other side and this can set off wheel wobble., Try moving tyres around. Are the ball joints on the track rod and drag arm free from wear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I experienced something like this with my 2A when the front wheels would sort of "flutter" after hitting a pothole. I think, as others are suggesting, you have to work your way right through the whole system eliminating any wear or embalance. I'm surprised the MOT didn't reveal the cause or that you're not also having irregular tyre wear. I cured my one with new wheel bearings. Drives straight as an arrow now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8 bubba Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 put a steering damper on it before i had jeeps i used to run and dismantel landys came across this a few times at first i rebuilt the front end expecting to find the problem but no all was well got the tyres balenced properly and all seemed much better until i hit a good ripple in the road then it was a violent death wobble that just about shook you out of the seat put a damper on that was the end off all the probs for good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I rebuilt my 80" series one axle without railko bushes ( or the sprung loaded Brass cone arrangement) . It is possible to use taper roller bearings top and bottom. I then added a hydraulic steering damper and everything was fine. But I didn't have to fiddle with the stupid stupid idiotic railko bushes ever again. Rebuilt my 2A the same way. The railko bushes are plain stupid, they wear so rapidly and are such a pain to get to. Not that I ever had wheel shimmy problems with aither of these vehicles. Also is the landy in question on the right leaf springs, and has it got the right Spring hanger shackles (different lengths available for different applications). If these elements are wrong the King Pin inclination will be wrong and this can induce wheel wobble.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Wheel wobble on a Series 3 is often a combination of all the factors mentioned above, i.e. swivel tension too low, worn steering damper, tired springs, tired shock absorbers, tired steering relay, worn steering box, worn track rod ends, worn drag link ends, loose steering box drop arm, loose relay arms, nasty tyres (poor inner structure), tracking, wheel balance! My regiment had 60+ 109's on excercise in Germany, all of which were theoretically identical, and all well maintained. Yet on the cobbled village streets some drove perfectly, and others as mentioned above go into a death wobble which remained alarming until slowing to less than 20mph? Some were cured by new relays, others it made no difference!! Most of the above are relatively easy to check at home, with the last two requiring specialist kit. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I rebuilt my 80" series one axle without railko bushes ( or the sprung loaded Brass cone arrangement) . It is possible to use taper roller bearings top and bottom. I then added a hydraulic steering damper and everything was fine. But I didn't have to fiddle with the stupid stupid idiotic railko bushes ever again. I did the same on my s1 20yrs ago,you will need the damper as you cant preload the taper brns to the same degree,not touched them since, beware of the fancy gas dampers all the aftermarket bods rant on about.i have lost count of how many we have changed for normal ones,due to the vehicle wandering off as they are pushing the steering one sided.This can be a very time consuming problem,be methodical and work through it,beware sometimes if you over tighten a swivel it will cure the problem by acting as a damper,leaving the original problem still there .One that gets missed is a broken centre bolt that goes through the spring and locates in the axle case,allthough i dont suspect this in your case.Have fun,and patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 About ten years ago I rebuilt my Land Rover on a new galvanised chassis, using many new parts. Sailed through the MOT no problem. Within a few weeks however I had a huge amount of play in the steering wheel. The cause of the problems in no particular order. 1) Front axle U bolts had stretched over time and entire front axle moved as steering turned. 2) Some of the studs securing the ackerman arm to the swivel housing had worked losse, despite look tabs and swivel housing became loose. I sssume these studs had stretched too and had no end of problem obtaining ones that could be torqued to the figure in the book before shearing. 3) The steering box support bracket had become loose on the chassis. I could see the whole bulkhead moving as the steering was moved. This I put down to the new smooth galvanised chassis and coat of paint on the bracket not offering the same friction as the old rust bond between the chassis and bracket. Swinging on the nuts with a bigger spanner cured that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul connor Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ok, tomorrow ill try shifting the tyres around. They are the mil spec goodyears off the top of my head, all in good cond. Steering relay has been replaced. steering linkages seem ok, so did the bearings on wheel wiggle, ill jack it up and find out this time.. many thanks for the help.. With the swivvels can you adjust or is it just replace the whole unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I had exactly the same problem with a 109 series 3 FFR, no problems until i hit a pothole, and then uncontrollable wheel wobble, nearly ended up taking apart the entire steering system, and re-bushed the whole front end. Turned out to be a dodgy tyre! it was still on its original Goodyear military tyres, i only noticed when i jacked up the front end and spun the wheels and seen a wheel turning while facing towards the front of the vehicle, the tyre tread had a slight wobble in it on one side. Replaced the tyres with exactly the same patterned make which i seem to recall were called SECURITY TM718, only slightly wider with a squarer side wall and little bit bigger lugs The tyre that came off had a completely knackered carcass which was only obvious on the insider of the tyre, it was totally shot, the exterior tread meanwhile looked good, with the exception of some hairline cracking in the lower part of the tread, this caused the tyre to go mushy causing the hideous steering problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 With the swivels, jack up one side and tug the wheel top and bottom. If there is play put your top hand index finger on the back plate/ drum and shake again, just to feel if it is play in the wheel bearings. There should be slight play to allow for the wheel bearings expanding when warm on a long run. If the play is excessive and in the swivel housing, it can sometimes be adjusted by removing shims from the top swivel pin. If this just makes the steering too tight, but still leaves play, then the Railco bush, top pin, or both, in the top are worn. The bush often wears very quickly when free wheeling hubs are fitted as there is no splash lubrication, and the bush drys out very quickly with use. The lower bearing can also wear and fail owing to total oil loss usually. The parts are very cheap and available. Setting the swivel up with new parts is also relatively simple, with the only "odd" tool being a spring balance to measure the resistance ( pre-load) in the swivel before the main swivel seal is tightened to the housing. PM me if you need and more info. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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