Help needed identifying vehicle

[b1gf00t]

Hi, I'm new to the site. Can anybody identify the vehicle in the pics below?

My grandfather drove this vehicle in WW2. He was was a driver with the Royal Engineers, serving in Italy and Africa withe 1st Army. If that helps any.

Thanks in advance,

Peter.

[abn deuce]

Yes of course , it's U.S. White Scout car , M3 A1 , 5.2 tons , powered with a Hercules 317 cubic inch straight 6 cylinder gas engine , speed is 55mph , gets about 8mpg , they built 20,856 of them , can't say what year but I m sure others will supply more details .

Edited August 2, 2008 by abn deuce

[b1gf00t]

Thanks very much for your help. I didn't realise it was a U.S. made vehicle. I assumed that with my grandfather being in the British army, it would naturally be a British vehicle. (Sorry for posting in the wrong thread.)

Now that I know the make and model, I can start my hunt for a die cast model of it. Thanks again, Peter.

[abn deuce]

Thats very understandable , and Welcome to the Friendly Forum , Great photo's and not to worry if somethings in the wrong thread the Mods can shift it if they feel it should be . Just an example of the War material sent from the United States being used by the different Allied forces.

[b1gf00t]

Thanks for the welcome. It's great to find out some history of the vehicle.

My grandfather is the guy in the middle of the three men standing in the top pic, and he's the one sitting at the front on the bonnet, in the bottom picture.

I remember him telling me that they used to sleep underneath it at night when there were enemy shells going off overhead. I'm amazed they managed to sleep with the noise. I suppose they just got used to it.

[LeeEnfield]

Great pic's, b1gf00t.

 

Welcome to the Bart Vanderveen Award winning Friendly forum.

 

All the best,

 

Andy

[Tony B]

Thanks very much for your help. I didn't realise it was a U.S. made vehicle. I assumed that with my grandfather being in the British army, it would naturally be a British vehicle. (Sorry for posting in the wrong thread.)

Now that I know the make and model, I can start my hunt for a die cast model of it. Thanks again, Peter.

 

Don't know about die cast but there are plastic models of various scales about. Do not mess about buy 1:1 and mark it up. what unit did your Grandfather serve in? the white was used by British for various purposes, including Forward Artilley Observers,

[b1gf00t]

I'd love 1:1 scale but it would mean sacraficing my other expensive hobbies to fund it. I'm affraid a model is as far as the budget goes at the minute.

I dug out my Grandfathers' army service book, (took me about 3 hours to find it) It says "Royal Engineers 238th field company". I found some other paperwork which said "1st infantry division" . If either of those would be his unit? I'm not familiar with military terminology. I also found out that he drove the scout car from '42 to '45.

[b1gf00t]

Great pic's, b1gf00t.

 

Welcome to the Bart Vanderveen Award winning Friendly forum.

 

All the best,

 

Andy

Hi Andy, cheers for the welcome. I take it that you guys on here all own and restore these old military vehicles? Do you ever put on any events or shows with them?

[abn deuce]

Yes the group over on that side of the Sea has a number of Rallies and Displays that many of the members attend with or without their vehicle depending on distance and conditions , just look through the site and you can see photo's from the different events that have been posted about them. There are model makers and builders of all scale sizes up to 1:1 also in the group .

Edited August 3, 2008 by abn deuce

[N.O.S.]

I take it that you guys on here all own and restore these old military vehicles?

 

Yes, No and everything in between On this forum, you don't actually need any more than a bit of enhusiasm for the vehicles. It costs but a little time to dream.........then you're hooked :-D

[Tony B]

The Royal Engineer's museum is a Chatham Kent, just up the road from the dockyard. http://www.remuseum.org.uk/ That would be a good place to start. We don't all own vehicles but all have an intrest and knowledge in the subject of vehicles and the histories of the people who used them. Looking for Gandad's unit and what he did is the first step on a veeery slippery slope.:cool2:

[AlienFTM]

I dug out my Grandfathers' army service book, (took me about 3 hours to find it) It says "Royal Engineers 238th field company". I found some other paperwork which said "1st infantry division" . If either of those would be his unit? I'm not familiar with military terminology. I also found out that he drove the scout car from '42 to '45.

 

Probably easiest to start at the top. The largest formation you will find in the field is an Army Group, comprising a number of field Armies (as opposed to the term Army as a generic cover-all for land forces). Thus NATO's Central Army Group (CentAG) in West Germany during the Cold War included the British Army of the Rhine (a field army) in its Order of Battle (OrBat). There will also be troops specific to the Army Group HQ.

 

An Army consists of a number of Corps (again a differant term in the field from the administrative concept of for example The Royal Armoured Corps). BAOR consisted of a single corps (1 (Br) Corps) - though in The Third World War by General Sir John Hackett, he described early on how he would have turned this into two corps for greater flexibility. The Cold War was an exercise in fielding maximum combat troops with minimum overhead and fielding BAOR as a single corps was one example. There will also be Army troops.

 

A Corps comprises a number of Divisions. In the late 1970s, 1 (BR) Corps comprised four armoured divisions, numbered, not surprisingly, 1, 2, 3 and 4. 3 Armoured Division was last in at the end of 1977; 2 Armd Div was first out at the end of 1982. Note that the use of the title "Armoured" describes the current role of the division. This may include Royal Artillery (RA), Royal Engineer (RE) and other assets to be allocated within the corps as required. For example, to cross a river, there may be Royal Engineers heavy bridging equipment attached to the lead division.

 

A division comprises a number of brigades. (During the late 1970s, they played with replacing Brigades with Task Forces. No real difference except that there were fewer HQ troops. For example a Task Force HQ was serviced by an HQ and Signals Troop, whereas a brigade was serviced by an HQ and Signals Squadron.) The are many divisional troops providing assets across the division, including RA, RE, Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME), Royal Military Police(RMP), ordnance and logistic units. It is at this level that I personally would expect to see your Grandfather's 238 Field Company RE (note that for many years now, the RE have used Squadrons in their nomenclature rather than companies), though in the absence of a brigade identifier being specified, they may have been divisional troops.

 

That is as far as you need to know for your answer, but I'll carry the piece on down for completeness' sake.

 

The division will also have a reconnaissance regiment as divisional troops (latterly, they are styled "Formation Recce"). During the BAOR period discussed earlier, the OrBat of an Armd Div comprised three infantry battalions, two armoured and one recce regiment, split across the brigades (Task Forces) as required.

 

A Brigade consists of a number of major units (armour and infantry) with support from all the other arms discussed already. In BAOR, the Brigade's recce element would comprise a Medium Recce Squadron from the Armd Recce Regt.

 

The major units form the backbones of battlegroups (which is what we see deployed to the sandpits). Armoured regiments and Infantry battalions are functionally equivalent; the difference is that an infantry "regiment" comprises numerous battalions, which all wear the same cap-badge and are administered as one but they rarely if ever appear side by side in the field. Battlegroups will swap a squadron (armour) for a company (infantry) or more as required to create a better-balanced major unit under unified command in the field.

 

The battlegroup will also have a recce element assigned from the recce regt along with artillery, engineer and all the other assets as required.

[AlienFTM]

Oh and to answer the question, your Grandfather's unit would be 238 Field Company RE. He would wear the RE capbadge and his loyalties would lie with this unit. It might be moved between divisions, brigades, etc, but he would always be a Royal Engineer and proud of it.

[b1gf00t]

That's quite a lot of info for me to take in Alien, but I've printed it off for reference.

Funny you should mention about bridge building, because that is exactly what he did do.

[LeeEnfield]

Hi Andy, cheers for the welcome. I take it that you guys on here all own and restore these old military vehicles? Do you ever put on any events or shows with them?

 

 

Hi b1gf00t,

 

Guess most of us on here do own something green, BUT, more importantly, ALL here are interested in various aspects of this absorbing and, (certainly with the folks on this forum) VERY friendly hobby.

 

As to shows, ............yes, take a look in events section,.war and peace this year, my 1st ever, was made all the more special due to meeting various posters from here;.............for a forum, where most of us only 'speak' to each other through a wire, to enable like minded folk to sit around a fire 'chewing the fat',.........is, to me, something special.

 

Welcome aboard. :-D

 

Andy