utt61 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Looking at the hydraulic diagrams, it would be easy to fit one with the option for crab steering, it would just need two extra valves. I think I want one of these, they look fun and useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Giles, There may be another way to drive a pump. It is a long time since I have been around an EB, but the Bedford gearbox has a standard SAE power take off mounting ( the pressed steel cover on the side), if there is room, a drive to another pump could be mounted on there. That is sesible. The pto take-off for the tipper or fuel pump on taker RL. I have a spare gear type pump which currently has twin-belt drive. I am looking forward to this little challange.:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I mean 'sensible':blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Just be aware - there is a limit to the power that can be put through these side-mount ptos. If you are expecting to use all available engine power, then expect possible problems. Having said that it amazes me what some people manage to get away with :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Looking at the hydraulic diagrams, it would be easy to fit one with the option for crab steering, it would just need two extra valves. I think I want one of these, they look fun and useful! Or one changeover valve....P to A and T to B or P to B and T to A, you could even do it with an electric Solenoid (Cetop valve or similar). Have a three way valve with P and TA and B all blanked in centre position and get rid of the two blue handwheels. Edited May 26, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Could you clarify these letters please. I can see the idea of tapping into the system at the test point after the flow devider. A straight forward access point. Another option I have just thought about - Richard, I wonder about coupling a second pump onto the back plate of the existing pump. It is just a vague idea. A full flow system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I expect that AntarMike will or has thought of something like this too? Or am I the only one who feels the need to modify everything I can, because none of it is quite how I want it - even the old British Army stuff. Not quite sure how I would modify something big though. On day, one day:angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Could you clarify these letters please. I can see the idea of tapping into the system at the test point after the flow devider. A straight forward access point. Another option I have just thought about - Richard, I wonder about coupling a second pump onto the back plate of the existing pump. It is just a vague idea. A full flow system. Existing pump is driven from the timing gears, it sits directly below the Injection pump. I cannot see how a back to back pump could be fitted. Edited May 26, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 (edited) Could you clarify these letters please. Modern Cetop valve will have on the mounting flange four ports which will be marked P,T,A and B. P = Pump (where fluid enters the valve,) T = Tank (the port from which fluid returns to the Tank or Reservoir) A and B are the two ports (A Port and B Port) normally connected to either end of a double acting Cylinder The post relates to Crab Steering. Of you take a 3 position CETOPP spool valve, disconnect the pipes going to the two blue handwheel valves that select Four wheel steering and connect them instead to P and T, then connect A and B to either end of the rear steering ram. it should behave as follows;_ when Cetop valve is in centre position P, T, A and B are all closed off so no steering , the wheels wheel sare held wherever they pointed. (two wheel steering only) If the Cetop is switched one way so that oil from steering circuit enters at P and is fed to one end of steering Cylinder via A port of the valve. Oil from the other side of the piston exits to port B and is fed back to the steering circuit through T port. Turn steering wheel the other way and the reverse happens. (contra steering) If valve is switched the other way, oil entering from P goes to B driving piston in opposite direction, Oil on the other side of the piston now exits A and returns to the steering circuit via T. Turn steering wheel the other way reverses this action. (Crab Steering) Edited May 26, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Existing pump is driven from the timing gears, it sits directly below the Injection pump. I cannot see how a back to back pump could be fitted. Mike, I agree with you there, and I do not think you could use a larger capacity pump in that position either. It is really a power steering take off point in most applications for that engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bedford-TK-HCB-Sandwich-Power-Take-Off-/290568879667?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item43a7413e33#ht_500wt_1156 thoughts please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bedford-TK-HCB-Sandwich-Power-Take-Off-/290568879667?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVehicleParts_SM&hash=item43a7413e33#ht_500wt_1156 thoughts please? Mike, Only going on memory, and you have a EB to check, I did not think the prop shaft, gearbox to transfer box, was very long. I would have thought that adding this sandwich PTO would make it too short a distance for a propshaft. :undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) The prop shaft is quite short and a further complication is that the Transfer box input shaft lies lower than the output from the gearbox. Had they been almost in line the propshaft may just have shortened. I note that the E.B. chassis rails are narrow compared to an RL so there isn't a busting lot of room between gearbox and chassis rail for the six bolt PTO on the side of the gearbox, and without actually knowing its physical size and layout there may well be conflict between the gearbox PTO and the flexible Hydraulic pipe feeding into the offside connection into the rear axle power steering actuating cylinder. Edited May 27, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I have now got my very own EB. And yes to your comments about unlikey to be able to either fit 2nd pump in-line or to the pto output on the gearbox. Too little room. Seems that the most obvious so far is the testing point after the spool block under the seat. I will write down this info on the valves because I have to swap one of the existing wheel valves over as operates but will not stop turning either off or on. Still changes steering over though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Well I do not know about you guys, but when ever I buy some new piece of kit, something always goes wrong on the first day. So it has.... The male splined shaft that goes into the hydro-static steering box from the steering wheel is worn away. The female splines in the box are fine. 13/16th's diameter at the deepest point. The shaft from the steering wheel with the male end is only 19mm diameter. It has been welded up in the past but I have no steering until I can repair this. I will go on Tuesday to try and find a high-torque bolt with that sized 12 spline head which can then be welded onto the rest of the shaft. Unless anyone just happens to have a spare steering wheel shaft with good splines, lying around:D. Just an idea. Typical though as I would have earned some money straight away with it. Best laid plans etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) If you can't find something to fit, These people amongst others offer steering wheels/ shaft and columns to fit Orbitrol Steering units. May be worth talking to them? http://www.hydraulicsltd.co.nz/hydraulic-steering-orbitrol.html Some info here but all the contacts are in USA http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=426790 This part available from Eaton See page 84 of PDF http://www.hydrowest.nl/pdf/Orbitrol%20stuureenheden.pdf Edited May 29, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I know someone who has been operating EB's in his business of tent and marquee hire, he told me that the steering wheel was a fork lift part, think he mentioned it was a Climax. Knowing how ROF made these machines from the parts bin (ie designed it with as many available parts from the Army parts system as possible), then it is entirely possible that the Orbitrol steering unit, shaft and wheel are all from the same source. If you have an army parts list, it might have a makers part number against this part and the NSN prefix might show the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) I know someone who has been operating EB's in his business of tent and marquee hire, he told me that the steering wheel was a fork lift part, think he mentioned it was a Climax. Knowing how ROF made these machines from the parts bin (ie designed it with as many available parts from the Army parts system as possible), then it is entirely possible that the Orbitrol steering unit, shaft and wheel are all from the same source. If you have an army parts list, it might have a makers part number against this part and the NSN prefix might show the source. As the Steering wheel is designed to be removable for air transport, held in by two lynch pins, it seems unlikely that it is a standard civilian part to me. They also had a stub that replaced the proper steering wheel, complete with spanner flats so that the steering could be worked with a spanner when loading into Argosy/ Andover etc. That part certaily wasn't standard! If ROF made that part they were certainly capable of making the real steering shaft.... Edited May 29, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 As the Steering wheel is designed to be removable for air transport, held in by two lynch pins, it seems unlikely that it is a standard civilian part to me. If ROF made that part they were certinly capable of making the real steering shaft.... Ah you spotted my deliberate mistake :embarrassed: ............it is so long since being involved in EB's that I had forgotten that point, it was only that I remembered being told the steering wheel could have been a Climax part, and jumped to a conclusion. I did recently post up that a EB was for sale for parts ( it had no mast), in the Darlington area. Not sure if i still have the owners contact number, he called me about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Ah you spotted my deliberate mistake :embarrassed: ............it is so long since being involved in EB's that I had forgotten that point, it was only that I remembered being told the steering wheel could have been a Climax part, and jumped to a conclusion. I did recently post up that a EB was for sale for parts ( it had no mast), in the Darlington area. Not sure if i still have the owners contact number, he called me about it. Ok Richard - that would be a useful number to have. As Mike said, because the EB came from the parts bin, the steering box came from some vehicle somewhere and maybe the steering column tip is also pre-made. When you look at the shaft, it is made in 2 sections. The frabricated section of tube from the steering wheel towards the end is one piece and the splined section has been crimped into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I hope I have made a terporary repair now. By using a hexagional headed bolt. I filled away valleys where the flats are giving me 6 splines. Cutting off the damaged section and then drilling a hole for the bolt. Then welded it on. So far this works. Will take it out for a decent drive to test it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Is the best place to get the de-registration documents and anything else I need from, the address that AntarMike put up: RLC Museum at Deepcut? This must have been my old barracks before the who-ha. If so not sorry it has been closed in some respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Well tomorrow I was taking the EB to a garage that repairs a lot of military kit to get a price for the electrics which is my weak point. Having taken the Beaver to it's first little earner, I think that the priority may well be to get the injectors serviced. Wow, once the engine starts pulling hard and gets a little warmth in it - the blue smoke is very spectacular big time!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) Is the best place to get the de-registration documents and anything else I need from, the address that AntarMike put up: RLC Museum at Deepcut? This must have been my old barracks before the who-ha. If so not sorry it has been closed in some respects. If you want to trace the vehicle record card to find its service life then you should contact Royal Engineers Museum at Chatham for Eager Beaver, unless it is an RAF Eager Beaver in which case Royal Air Force Museum Hendon, If it is ex Navy or Marines I don't know..... RE Museum RAF Museum For a bare minimum info of date into service, date released (cast) and who to, will do you then these people may well be able to help. They won't have the record card, just date into and date out of service, and who it passed to. Registration Manager Defence Equipment and Support Supply Chain Support Building 154 Chetwynd barracks Beeston Notts NG9 5HA Edited June 1, 2011 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Thank you Mike - request sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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