winchman Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Could any one help me identify this helmet? Its different to the Brodie type I have seen before? Has fixing in the very top of the dome, leather harness inside have had a good Google but can't see anything the same? Leather is embossed 7 I assume the size? 1941 and B.H ? embossed on to the leather FC painted on the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Wartime civil defence - fire guard.Fire watchers & street fire parties. As opposed to AFS or NFS who used Brodie pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchman Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, 7VHU said: Wartime civil defence - fire guard.Fire watchers & street fire parties. As opposed to AFS or NFS who used Brodie pattern. Thanks any idea of value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Internet seems to be asking 20 to 40 quid depending on condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Also called a Zuckerman helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 The man who did the design work - Solly Zuckerman <https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw65003/Solly-Zuckerman-Baron-Zuckerman> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 This really nice example is on tat-bazar at the moment. Unlike some jazzed-up examples, this one does seem to have original paint. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 That's a goodlooking one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) W is the marking for a warden. Wardens were not issued with Zucherman. FG is the marking for fire guard. , Only fire guard officers wore white helmets, and these were of the brodie pattern. Even the most senior only had 1 wide band and 2 narrow bands. So i would scratch my head over this one. An excellent place for ww2 CD info is ww2civildefence.co.uk. Edited October 14, 2023 by ted angus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Evening Ted. I've not seen this combination of marking before either but, given the relatively low value of Zuckerman helmets, I'm not sure anyone would spend the time and effort to fake the tat-bazar example. (I think most helmet fraudsters are getting handy with Normandy cam on Spanish helmets, etc.) I have, however, seen some very oddly painted - but absolutely period - Zuckerman: particularly those associated with commercial concerns. I look forward to hearing more! All the very best. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) From: <https://www.warehouse701.co.uk/authentic-wwii-fire-and-warden-tin-hats-or-helmets> "...a distinctive white Zuckerman helmet with three black rank bands and bearing the letters 'FG'. These were worn by individuals acting as Fire Guards under the Fire Watchers scheme, to help identify and deal with small fires within the local area. Small teams would search out incendiary bombs, secondary fires and other similar threats following air raids etc. The three black bands denote this belonged to an area Officer or Captain." Edited October 14, 2023 by Adrian Dwyer additional text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 <https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/militaria-ww2-wwii-world-war-2-second-world-war-.-906-c-5ae4919865> and the same helmet at http://josephs-militaria-and-homefront-collection.co.uk/PAGE16.HTML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Not sure about this one <https://homefrontcollection.com/shop.php?ps=1&pg=46> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Limited but interesting <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/blog/fake-zuckerman-helmet-markings> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 1 hour ago, ted angus said: W is the marking for a warden. Wardens were not issued with Zucherman. FG is the marking for fire guard. , Only fire guard officers wore white helmets, and these were of the brodie pattern. Even the most senior only had 1 wide band and 2 narrow bands. So i would scratch my head over this one. An excellent place for ww2 CD info is ww2civildefence.co.uk. <http://josephs-militaria-and-homefront-collection.co.uk/PAGE16.HTML> Nice image of Fire Guards in Zuckerman and Brodie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 39 minutes ago, Adrian Dwyer said: Limited but interesting <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/blog/fake-zuckerman-helmet-markings> Have a look under fire guard on the same site, afraid i am on my tablet and havent a clue how to put on a link. Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 23 minutes ago, ted angus said: Have a look under fire guard on the same site, afraid i am on my tablet and havent a clue how to put on a link. Ted Thanks Ted, I'll have a look. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Evening Ted, The Table of markings is interesting but I can't help but feel there may have been variations? Nice images. <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/fire-guards-watchers.html> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Indeed Adrian no doubt there would have been variations or examples of ignoring the regs. Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Well, there was a war on…..better a wrong helmet than none : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) Just to add . . . this very nasty jazzed-up helmet is on tat-bazar (sic) now. The seller wants £138 and I'm still trying to work out why? A truly horrible modern overpaint. Edited October 15, 2023 by Adrian Dwyer photo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 9 hours ago, ted angus said: Indeed Adrian no doubt there would have been variations or examples of ignoring the regs. Ted Morning Ted - interesting that this Brodie is marked W/FG; I missed that last night <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/fire-guards-watchers.html> A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Adrian Dwyer said: Just to add . . . this very nasty jazzed-up helmet is on tat-bazar (sic) now. The seller wants £138 and I'm still trying to work out why? A truly horrible modern overpaint. Really badly executed "recreation"...I would have made a better job making one of those. Edited October 15, 2023 by Enigma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted angus Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 6 hours ago, Adrian Dwyer said: Morning Ted - interesting that this Brodie is marked W/FG; I missed that last night <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/fire-guards-watchers.html> A It wont surprise me if some individuals were dual roled, especially in large industrial organisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 Sold for £54 including postage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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