Help with my Helmet

[winchman]

Could any one help me identify this helmet?

Its different to the Brodie type I have seen before?

Has fixing in the very top of the dome, leather harness inside have had a good Google but can't see anything the same?

Leather is embossed 7 I assume the size?

1941 and B.H ? embossed on to the leather 

FC painted on the front

[7VHU]

Wartime civil defence - fire guard.Fire watchers & street fire parties. As opposed to AFS or NFS who used Brodie pattern.

[winchman]

1 minute ago, 7VHU said:

Wartime civil defence - fire guard.Fire watchers & street fire parties. As opposed to AFS or NFS who used Brodie pattern.

Thanks any idea of value?

 

[7VHU]

Internet seems to be asking 20 to 40 quid depending on condition.

[Enigma]

Also called a Zuckerman helmet.

[Adrian Dwyer]

The man who did the design work - Solly Zuckerman <https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw65003/Solly-Zuckerman-Baron-Zuckerman>

 

[Adrian Dwyer]

This really nice example is on tat-bazar at the moment.  Unlike some jazzed-up examples, this one does seem to have original paint.

[Enigma]

That's a goodlooking one.

[ted angus]

W is the marking for a warden.  Wardens were not issued with Zucherman. FG is the marking for fire guard. , Only fire guard officers wore white helmets, and these were of the brodie pattern. Even the most senior only had 1 wide band and 2 narrow bands.  So i would scratch my head over this one. An excellent place for ww2 CD info is ww2civildefence.co.uk.

Edited October 14, 2023 by ted angus

[Adrian Dwyer]

Evening Ted.  I've not seen this combination of marking before either but, given the relatively low value of Zuckerman helmets, I'm not sure anyone would spend the time and effort to fake the tat-bazar example.  (I think most helmet fraudsters are getting handy with Normandy cam on Spanish helmets, etc.)  I have, however, seen some very oddly painted -  but absolutely period - Zuckerman: particularly those associated with commercial concerns.  I look forward to hearing more!

All the very best.

A

[Adrian Dwyer]

From: <https://www.warehouse701.co.uk/authentic-wwii-fire-and-warden-tin-hats-or-helmets>

"...a distinctive white Zuckerman helmet with three black rank bands and bearing the letters 'FG'. These were worn by individuals acting as Fire Guards under the Fire Watchers scheme, to help identify and deal with small fires within the local area. Small teams would search out incendiary bombs, secondary fires and other similar threats following air raids etc. The three black bands denote this belonged to an area Officer or Captain."

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Adrian Dwyer
additional text

[Adrian Dwyer]

<https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/militaria-ww2-wwii-world-war-2-second-world-war-.-906-c-5ae4919865>

and  the same helmet at

http://josephs-militaria-and-homefront-collection.co.uk/PAGE16.HTML

[Adrian Dwyer]

Not sure about this one <https://homefrontcollection.com/shop.php?ps=1&pg=46>

[Adrian Dwyer]

Limited but interesting <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/blog/fake-zuckerman-helmet-markings>

[Adrian Dwyer]

1 hour ago, ted angus said:

W is the marking for a warden.  Wardens were not issued with Zucherman. FG is the marking for fire guard. , Only fire guard officers wore white helmets, and these were of the brodie pattern. Even the most senior only had 1 wide band and 2 narrow bands.  So i would scratch my head over this one. An excellent place for ww2 CD info is ww2civildefence.co.uk.

<http://josephs-militaria-and-homefront-collection.co.uk/PAGE16.HTML> Nice image of Fire Guards in Zuckerman and Brodie.

[ted angus]

39 minutes ago, Adrian Dwyer said:

Limited but interesting <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/blog/fake-zuckerman-helmet-markings>

Have a look under fire guard on the same site, afraid i am on my tablet and havent a clue how to put on a link.  Ted

[Adrian Dwyer]

23 minutes ago, ted angus said:

Have a look under fire guard on the same site, afraid i am on my tablet and havent a clue how to put on a link.  Ted

Thanks Ted, I'll have a look.

A

[Adrian Dwyer]

Evening Ted, The Table of markings is interesting but I can't help but feel there may have been variations?  Nice images. <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/fire-guards-watchers.html>

[ted angus]

Indeed Adrian  no doubt there would have been variations or examples of ignoring the regs. Ted

[7VHU]

Well, there was a war on…..better a wrong helmet than none : )

[Adrian Dwyer]

Just to add . . . this very nasty jazzed-up helmet is on tat-bazar (sic) now.  The seller wants £138 and I'm still trying to work out why?  A truly horrible modern overpaint.

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Adrian Dwyer
photo

[Adrian Dwyer]

9 hours ago, ted angus said:

Indeed Adrian  no doubt there would have been variations or examples of ignoring the regs. Ted

Morning Ted - interesting that this Brodie is marked W/FG; I missed that last night <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/fire-guards-watchers.html>

A

[Enigma]

3 hours ago, Adrian Dwyer said:

Just to add . . . this very nasty jazzed-up helmet is on tat-bazar (sic) now.  The seller wants £138 and I'm still trying to work out why?  A truly horrible modern overpaint.

 

Really badly executed "recreation"...I would have made a better job making one of those.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Enigma

[ted angus]

6 hours ago, Adrian Dwyer said:

Morning Ted - interesting that this Brodie is marked W/FG; I missed that last night <https://www.ww2civildefence.co.uk/fire-guards-watchers.html>

A

It wont surprise me if some individuals were dual roled, especially in large industrial organisations.

[Adrian Dwyer]

Sold for £54 including postage.