CVR(T) Scorpion VRN: 04FD46

[bfgmovies]

Been looking for information on my Scorpion with the VRN 04 FD 46

I am curious if anyone has information or photos of it's time in service.

What I do know: It was part of the 1st Royal Tank Regiment at some point.

It was part of the Exercise Bold Guard 1986 in West Germany.

I pieced together this history based on some writings came with the vehicle and from what I can tell looking up the VRN on merlinarchive:

• It was with 4th troop B squadron 16/5th Queen Royal Lancers in Tidworth around 1984
• Was transferred to the 13th/18th Royal Hussars in November of 1986
• Was transferred to the Queens Dragoons Guards in May 1991, could have stayed with them till 94

A piece of paper I got with claimed it was deployed in the following regions:

• West Germany 1974-1977
• Beirut 1983
• Cyprus 1987, 1989, 1990

I'm not entirely sure how accurate all of that information is.

I haven't found any photos of it anywhere when it was in service, wondering if anyone has anything or if this is as about as much info as there is out there on the vehicle. When I googled the VRN I came across this forum post listing out the VRNs of the Scorpions used in the Falklands, but none of the VRNs he lists match up to any of the known Scorpions so I don't think this list is accurate in anyway (https://pienoismallit.net/galleria/malli_12837/)

Any help is appreciated!

Here's a photo of my Scorpion

 

[Johnny]

I did the same search!

FV107 Scimitar (pienoismallit.net)

The four FV101 Scorpion CVR(T) reconnaissance wagons of The Blues and Royals' B Squadron's Recce Troops; the trucks at the Falkland were reportedly as follows:

Registration No. 02FD18

Registration No. 02FD41
Registration No. 04FD46
Registration No. 02FD98

and wagon-specific identification numbers were as follows:

Wagon code 23, unit 3rd Tp, B Sqd, B & R
Wagon code 23A, unit 3rd Tp, B Sqd, B & R Wagon code 24, unit 4th Tp, B Sqd, B & R

Wagon code 24A, unit 4th Tp, B Sqd, B & R
Unfortunately, I do not know which truck belonged to which wagon emblem, because those loggers and trucks were covered, apparently overpainted, after an exercise on the island of Ascension when the Scorpions were re-shipped to HMS Fearless and then the journey continued towards the Falkland Islands.

 

 There is this thread investigating the Falklands CVR(T) and interestingly the identity of a couple of them is unconfirmed.
The VRNs were thought to start with 03, but is it possible that yours is 24A or 24B?

 

Falklands CVR(T)s - Page 3 - Tracked vehicles - HMVF - Historic Military Vehicles Forum

4 Troop

24   Scorpion   02 FD 76 Confirmed today by Charlie2356. Scorpion / Sabre. Part owned by barrynevuk, Middlesex.

24A Scorpion   03 FD ??

24B Scimitar    0? FD ??  Possibly 03 FD 34 or 03 FD 84? based on the notes by Charlie2356 following studies to the images on this post.

24C Scimitar    05 FD 72 (?)  Unfortunately, both the line-up picture at  Southampton and the rear view taken on Ascension Island are not great quality, and my attempts to enlarge the images weren't a great success, but based on these two photos 24C could be 05 FD 72.

 

More research needed!

Edited April 27, 2023 by Johnny

[bfgmovies]

9 hours ago, Johnny said:

I did the same search!

FV107 Scimitar (pienoismallit.net)

The four FV101 Scorpion CVR(T) reconnaissance wagons of The Blues and Royals' B Squadron's Recce Troops; the trucks at the Falkland were reportedly as follows:

Registration No. 02FD18

Registration No. 02FD41
Registration No. 04FD46
Registration No. 02FD98

and wagon-specific identification numbers were as follows:

Wagon code 23, unit 3rd Tp, B Sqd, B & R
Wagon code 23A, unit 3rd Tp, B Sqd, B & R Wagon code 24, unit 4th Tp, B Sqd, B & R

Wagon code 24A, unit 4th Tp, B Sqd, B & R
Unfortunately, I do not know which truck belonged to which wagon emblem, because those loggers and trucks were covered, apparently overpainted, after an exercise on the island of Ascension when the Scorpions were re-shipped to HMS Fearless and then the journey continued towards the Falkland Islands.

 

 There is this thread investigating the Falklands CVR(T) and interestingly the identity of a couple of them is unconfirmed.
The VRNs were thought to start with 03, but is it possible that yours is 24A or 24B?

 

Falklands CVR(T)s - Page 3 - Tracked vehicles - HMVF - Historic Military Vehicles Forum

4 Troop

24   Scorpion   02 FD 76 Confirmed today by Charlie2356. Scorpion / Sabre. Part owned by barrynevuk, Middlesex.

24A Scorpion   03 FD ??

24B Scimitar    0? FD ??  Possibly 03 FD 34 or 03 FD 84? based on the notes by Charlie2356 following studies to the images on this post.

24C Scimitar    05 FD 72 (?)  Unfortunately, both the line-up picture at  Southampton and the rear view taken on Ascension Island are not great quality, and my attempts to enlarge the images weren't a great success, but based on these two photos 24C could be 05 FD 72.

 

More research needed!

Yes! would be neat if we could figure out the unconfirmed ones. Mine is a Scorpion, and it looks like the only unconfirmed Scorpion is 24A. Based on this list of found Scorps so far though, I don't think the list is correct. I thought it was interesting though that my exact VRN was listed among that list though, which makes me wonder what the source on that list was.

I sent a message to the guy on that other forum who had that list of VRNs of supposed Scorpions to see what his source was just to see, haven't heard a response though. I also sent a message to the Household Cavalry Museum Archive as well, they took a look for my VRN and tried to search archives for the VRNs of the Scorps used in the Falklands and they found nothing. Was nice of them to look and I appreciated their help. They pointed me to the Eden Camp in Yorkshire as a possible source of information on the vehicles used as they have one of the Scorpions and two of the Scimitars, so I contacted them a few days ago but have yet to hear back from them, although I do wonder if the vehicles they discovered was known to be Falklands CVRTs based on the research done on this forum in that thread!

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by bfgmovies

[EDA]

I have Scimitar 08FD45 - can anyone tell me about its service history?

 

Thanks in advance

David

Edited July 20, 2023 by EDA
adding photo

[AlienFTM]

On 4/27/2023 at 6:32 AM, bfgmovies said:

Been looking for information on my Scorpion with the VRN 04 FD 46

I am curious if anyone has information or photos of it's time in service.

What I do know: It was part of the 1st Royal Tank Regiment at some point.

• It was with 4th troop B squadron 16/5th Queen Royal Lancers in Tidworth around 1984

If 16/5L were sent back to Tidworth around 1984, I feel sorry for them. They must have upset someone.

Let me explain The Arms Plot.

During the Cold War, regiments moved every few years to keep them fresh. They also switched between Armour and Recce periodically (but the RTRs tried hard to swerve Recce, cos they were TANK regiments, innit, whereas Recce has always been a cavalry role). A good colonel and commanding officer (lieutenant colonel) would strive to get the best postings for their men. The plan of who moved where and when was governed by the Arms Plot.

Then there were The Troubles. Until the mid-80s, there was a RAC armoured car regiment in Omagh (by handing Omagh to the infantry, an RAC regiment was freed to add another tank regiment to the BAOR order of battle, OrBat).

A sensible route was as follows. An armoured regiment would be selected to go Recce. It would leave BAOR and head to Omagh for 18 months (later 2 years). From Omagh they'd head to Aliwal Barracks, Tidworth and convert to CVR(T) for 18 months, sending squadrons to Hong Kong (the Hong Kong Recce Regt was pulled in early 76, right before the Arms Plot said we'd go there) and Cyprus, one squadron to UNFICYP for 6 months centred on Nicosia, another to be the Sovereign Base armoured car squadron based in Episkopi and Dhekelia. From there, the regiment would deploy to BAOR as a divisional Recce Regt.

I'm pretty sure 17/21L were in Omagh when the Troubles kicked off. When we were in Tidworth 76-7, a storeroom still contained the 17/21L canoe club equipment, easily visible through the reinforced storeroom window. 17/21L were back on Chieftain when Spearhead series 2 was made, and their Chieftains were to be seen in that series' opening credits.

17/21L were followed in Omagh and Tidworth by 16/5L. While 16/5L were in Tidworth and Cyprus, the Turks counter-invaded Cyprus in response to a pro-Greek coup that led to ethnic cleansing. 16/5L saw serious action, both the UNFICYP squadron keeping Greeks and Turks apart, and the Sovereign Base squadron keeping Turks off British sovereign territory. 16/5L went from Tidworth to Wolfenbüttel to be (I think) 1 Armd Div Recce Regt, with a life span, on the Inner german Border of 20 minutes if 3 Shock Army kicked off.

16/5L were followed by 1RTR through Omagh (73-4) and Tidworth (74-6). I think 1RTR went to Detmold (4 Armd Div) but they were gone back to tanks by 1980, replaced by 9/12L.

1RTR were followed round the Arms Plot by 15/19H (Omagh 74-6, where I came in, Tidworth 76-7). 15/19H were followed by 9/12L then I believe 13/18H.

So what does all this mean?

Having had a Tidworth tour about 73-4, they were invited back to said dump in 1984. Must have upset someone. By the mid-80s, I'd changed role and didn't follow the Arms Plot. But as we see, 16/5L did Tidworth twice and 1RTR at least once. Whether the Scorpion in question was in Tidworth throughout that time? Unlikely. It will have been removed under Op Scorpole for major upgrade. It might have gone back.

It might have been in Aliwal when 15/19H were there, but I honestly couldn't remember after all these years.

Not much help. Sorry