pawelcen Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Hi Ron, I got the handlebar and front brake stud ordered from Brian. Thanks for your help. Best wishes Pawel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks for saying Pawel. Good luck. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaapstad Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) W.r.t. the carb mixing chamber, several machines had a mixing chamber number like 276/014R as you mention too. The Triumph 350 ex WD was one of these. The Panther listed this as well - as did others. I've no idea if this is of any relevance, but it's all I can come up with. Possibly a corruption of this? M20 WD had the same mixing chamber number as well. Edited October 2, 2020 by slaapstad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 Thank for your answer Slaapstad, I do not know the use of the L I98 carburetor? I have not found this type anywhere? Regards Pawel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofRack Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Hello. I have just registered on this site. I have a Triumph 3SW bitsa. I obtained an age related plate for it using the following info from the VMCC who had military contract cards:Contract number C6128, starting 25 January 1940 for 1000 Solo 350SV from frame number TL17300 to 18299 and engine numbers from 40-3SW-34401 to 35400, contact complete 13 August 1940. My bike is TL18175 g/box TE-31560 and belonged for some time to a speedway rider named George Basson who turned it into a grasstracker with, I believe, a 250 JAP engine made from parts (it has an engine number on each crank case). The bike appears to have original forks, gearbox and rear wheel, but the engine, petrol and oil tanks, saddle, mudguards are non-original. The gearbox had no kickstart but I have since fitted one. Thought the information might be useful to someone. Incidentally there was another number F1630 stamped on the saddle lug on my bike as well as the Frame number. I have seen this number referred to as the frame number on at least three other bikes as well as my own. There is definitely one bike, possibly a 1937 250, T70 maybe, registered on the road with this as its frame number. I saw another one in a Bonhams advert and it's referred to as the military test machine frame number for the 3S in the Orchard/Madden book. Someone suggested it might be a casting number but it's definitely a stamp done post casting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Hi and welcome. The part number for the frame front section is F1631 the rear section is F1631A. Maybe F1630 is the part number for that casting but they're not listed separately in any of my books. Same contract as mine. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) Hello RoofRack, welcome to the club. The number under the seat of the F1630 is the part number, i.e. the front portion of the frame. F like frame. The engine parts are prefixed with E like engine. The 1939 parts catalog lists the F 1631. I think this is one of the many mistakes in this catalog. Both of my bikes have the number 1630 stamped on them. My one bike is from order C5108 and has the numbers TL15567 / 3S 28594 / TE8124 (normal ratio). The second is the TL17954 (order C 6128), engine 3S 28675 (order C5108), gearbox TE 32640 (wide ratio). We have motorbikes built around a similar period of time. Pawel Edited October 21, 2020 by pawelcen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I don't think it's a mistake Pawel. Those same 1939 frame part numbers continue in the 3SW 5SW and 3HW lists. I have seen several incidents where a forging or casting is marked with a number that is one digit away from it's official finished part number. This I believe is the foundry part number which becomes the parts list number after machining or assembly. A case in point that had me baffled some years ago is that a BSA M20 con rod has 66-481 cast into it, yet the part number is 66-480. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofRack Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Hi Ron and Pawel, yes I kind of thought it was a part number - but because it's so close to the frame number it's caused a lot of confusion - and as many WD bikes were registered after their service people just looked under the saddle as instructed, saw the number and assumed it was the frame number. It's caused considerable confusion. My bike is not a military restoration at all. It looked like the yellowy photo when I bought it, I got it working (two blue photos) and took it to Coupe Moto Legende in Dijon about four years ago, where, due to poor maintenance, the back wheel came loose causing me to fall off. After that I did an engine strip, had a new crank pin made by Godden Engineering, and powder-coated the bike black. Now it looks like the bottom photo. I decided to keep it looking a little similar to its grass track days with it's tiny oil and fuel tanks. It looks (and is) very light and bicycle-like. It's just an entry level classic bike really for days out riding with friends. But I thought you'd like to be aware of its existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 Hi Ron, It is possible that it is a newer version of this part and is renamed to 1631? But maybe a mistake. In the gearbox drawing (page 30), the layshaft 2th gear and 3th gear numbers are mixed up. In the list on page 31 it is correct + WR numbers. I am enclosing the catalog pages with the corrected numbers. I also found a few other mistakes, but I don't remember quickly. One thing is sure, the F1630 number is not the serial frame number. Thanks Ron for the comments. Pawel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 I like this restoration and that you left it in the racing spec. Its post-war history and use for civilian purposes is visible. Another family member found.🙂 Regards Pawel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I'm strangely attracted too! Pawel I've noticed a couple of similar mistakes in the Norton Big list. But something as prominent as a frame part number carried over from pre war and covering different models throughout the war seem an impossible mistake to me. I'll ask Brian Tillin if he knows next time I speak to him. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 Ron, what's the number on your bike 1630 or 1631? Pawel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Well I have three Triumphs and can't remember ever seeing that number.......But I'll look tomorrow. Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 So far I can't see a number on my 3HW or 5SW, but under the paint on my 3SW on the left side of the saddle lug I think I can make out ??30 which is upside down. Presumably if I cleaned the paint off, I would see F1630, which I'm still convinced is the foundry or factory part number for that lug. Not shown in any parts books as it's not available as a separate part. Each individual frame part would need to be distinguished before assembly. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 Hi Ron, On my both bikes sign 1630 is upside down. Quote Each individual frame part would need to be distinguished before assembly. Maybe so, but why is this only element marked? Do other elements, such as: headstock, support for tank, engine and gearbox plate supports and others have a marking? But you know British technology better than I do. Regards Pawel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 OK that proves we have the same thing. I have no idea about other parts, it's so long since I stripped and painted them, I can't remember if I saw anything. I guess you are in a better situation to know. I'll ask Brian, but his phone is busy so far. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I spoke to Brian today. He confirmed my theory that it's just a "component" number. He said you often see it on other parts too. Like if you look behind the lugs on the forks where your wheels spindle goes....Is often an F number. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) Ok, I don't know the English production system, technology, mentality etc like you. I also have a problem with checking, because I have already powder coated both frames. But I don't remember any other items being numbered. Additionally, marking is done by stamping (the same font as the fame number). With cast or forged elements, it is easier to mark them during the technological process as traps (like in photo). Subsequent stamping adds additional costs. Note that motor parts like flywheel, cylinder (there is also a cylinder in Polish) or conrod are stamped. Only machined by turning and milling are stamped. For example, gears of a gearbox. In my experience, you will sooner find a mistake in paper manuals than on metal parts. Take a look at RoofRack what heated discussion you have generated. 😁 Thanks Ron for your version. I will probably stay with the version with an error in the parts list. Pawel Edited October 22, 2020 by pawelcen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) This from my 1943 3HW list...... Exactly the same in my 1944 3HW, 3SW and 5SW lists. Ron PS. There is a "typo" in the 39 illustration, but it is correct in the list. Edited October 23, 2020 by Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofRack Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Ooh - just found another one: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23602/lot/121/ This isn't the one I'd already seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofRack Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Few more: https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25384/lot/208/ https://www.yesterdays.nl/product/triumph-1936-250-cc-1-cyl-ohv/ https://www.yesterdays.nl/product/triumph-1939-t80-1-cyl-350-cc-ohv/ https://www.roncobb.com/Tri3Smilitary.html And there's one on this page if you do a text search (ctrl+F) http://www.archifdy-ceredigion.org.uk/vehiclesdb.php?dbsearch=Cardigan&dbsearchfunc=dbsearch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Ha Ha! I wonder how many bikes are registered with that same frame number. The number should start with TL for the lightweights. And the guy who thinks his is the test model is dreaming. Obviously none of them knew where to look for the frame number!! 🙄Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welbike Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 That's just incredible!!! and even quite current too! I know for a fact hundreds of Harley WLA's have the same "frame" number in Holland, as they never had a frame number, they took the casting number of the headstock, but that was just after the war. The Dutch DVLA (RDW) still have big problems when you turn up with one of these, and there's no number! Cheers, Lex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 The general rule with Harley's here Lex, is to stamp the engine number on the frame. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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