pawelcen Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) Report post Posted yesterday at 08:44 AM My name is Pawel ( eng. Paul) and I am a new forum member from Poland.I have two Triumphs 3S from 1940.Probably both were sent to Russia with the help of Lend Lease and served in the Polish army in Russia. Because they were not entirely original, so I decided to restore them to the specifications from 1940. One will be the version of 3S de Luxe, and the other in the colors of Polish Air Forces in Great Britain.I would like to ask for help in rebuilding and finding motorcycle numbers in the contract numbers.First (de luxe version):frame number: TL 15567engine number: 28594Contract number: C5108. I started the topic in the "Introductions & Welcomes" section and now I'm moving him on the advice of "No Signals" to "Motorcycles" section. I will be grateful for all comments and help.Paul Edited June 10, 2020 by pawelcen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 I buy a civilian de Luxe (ex military) in 1982. The front wheel, mudguard were from DKW NZ and the front fork was not original. It had a Polish army nameplate from the 1946 (demobilization). Instead of the year of production is the date of release of the model. The engine number has a first digit added.The frame has original numbers in the head and under the saddle. This motorcycle had a field stand attachment welded to the frame. Unfortunately I removed them in 1982. I thought it was a post-war, not original modification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Hello Pawel. Unfortunately as you can see from this excerpt from "British Forces Motorcycles" the records for contract C5108 are inconclusive. Lots were lost during the bombing of the Triumph factory in 1940. The bikes on the left in the picture are from that contract. Note the 6" headlamps. I think these are based on the pre war 3SE. The field stand pivot was a bolt on item for these. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 Hi Ron, thanks for the info.They may have been based on the 3SE model, but they have an aluminum chaincase and magdyno just like the de Luxe model.My frame ranges from 14612 to 14612+ 3300.In my motorcycle the field stand pivot was moulded. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Maybe your field stand pivot was welded at a later date? In the picture of thos ealy 3SW's lined up, they are clearly bolted on and the clamp with bolts is listed in the parts list. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) Ron, probably you are right. This weld does not look professional. In foto place of removed clips (de luxe). In the picture I can see only one name plate on the top of the tank. Just like in my tank. Thanks Ron.Do you know who makes copies of luggage rack? Paul Edited June 10, 2020 by pawelcen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Yes I do! Copied from my original on my 3SW. I'll direct him towards this thread so that he can contact you. This one is on my 5SW. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 10, 2020 Author Share Posted June 10, 2020 Thanks. Does it also produce mudgards stays? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Yes I've been in contact and he will PM you tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkinov Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I thought i would copy in this exchange on the bike that ended up in the introduction section Hi Pawel thank you for sharing the details of the bikes ..I have enjoyed reading the thread so far and reviewing the photos Frame TL15567 ..The engine stamping were very interesting as with triumphs it's not unusual to see the engine numbers modified post war .. In the period immediately after the war triumph had a manufacturing success and many people wanted a triumph War time bikes were undesirable and the value was in the pre war bikes and post war so many ww2 bikes were modified to be attractive to these market .potentially your bike was one of these ..Triumph have very distinctive engine stamps ..so as.you have identified you have the inspectors WE stamp ..followed by the year 40 (1940l and the model 3s The Engine number has had a 3 added (wrong font) to the front and this has been used to register the bike in Poland but mis identified..you also have the contract number which again is a triumph stamp C5108 the large overstamp of 71435 is interesting and is an doing a bit more research into that ..could I get a close up of that stamp please ... The frame should have the lugs for the field stand clips ..or the weld marks where these have been removed Jenkinov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 Hello Ron, in the photo from the Triumph factory you can see the rear number plate with the bottom half painted black. The inscription Triumph is also visible, as in civil versions F1822. Was she prepared to paint the registration number digits? Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) Hi Pawel. Yes it's the same (civilian) number plate I have fitted to my 3SW and 5SW. They seem to only put the census number on the front number plate or tank after the front number plates were soon deleted . But there is a couple of examples where a unit number was put on the rear number plate. I have seen and restored a couple of BEF period Royal Enfield WD/C's where the census number was applied to the rear plate. Ron Edited June 17, 2020 by Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 Hi Ron. Interesting is this Triumph converted to wear a Bren gun. Maybe this is the bike with frame number 17366 from order C6128? Thanks for information. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 It was a one off experiment "armoured" motorcycle for air field protection. Definitely not for riding on the road Pawel!! Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkinov Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 The Armoured Triumph 3SW is a fantastic example of the ingenuity and experimentation tried by the british army when following Dunkirk armoured vehicles were in short supply A Replica of the Bike has been made and its story is on the Walsh family vehicle Collection web site WFVC.CO.UK Motorbikes were used in a variety of experiments at this time including one of my favourites ..The mounting of a Thompson Sub machine Gun . Jenkinov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Shaun Walsh brought his replica to our Goodwood Revival display a few years back. It was as much as I could do to lift it upright off its field stand. 😅 Ron PS Jenk, here's a couple to print off and put by your bed!☺️ Edited June 18, 2020 by Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkinov Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Hi Gents Firstly Ron , Thank you for the photos of the Thompsons mounted on the Matchless , I had not seen these photos and its interesting to see the mounts ..I did like the HMG variant in the background and cannot recall seeing a surviving example Pawel , my Triumph 3sw has the welded field stand attachment and is from contract C7162 .can we have a close up of yours so i can compare it ? , I am unclear on the date they moved from bolt on to welded field stand mounts ? Regards Jenkinov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I'm proud to say that the Sean Walsh armoured 3SW is fitted with a cylinder head from me.........well, actually it was originally a door-stop for my workshop door that Sean spotted on a visit to my place....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Rik found those images at the IWM. The outfits behind could be home guard? (they have civy BO masks) Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Then there was a Matchless Model X that JT made a replica of . Sorry if I've gone off topic. Hopefully Pawel wont mind! Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Hi, My both Triumphs had a welded field stand. As I wrote, the one from order C5108 ( TL 15567) has already been removed, but there are marks on the frame. There is a brass stain after the clip. There is no sign after the bolt handle, but I remember it was. Bolt and clip are preserved in the TL17954 frame. I don't have a stand, but I hope you can help me get it. Cool Matchless pictures. There is no problem about deviation from the topic. It always goes this way. Ron, thanks for the photo with the cheerful girls next to BSA. I think it is a motorcycle from the armored unit of General Maczek. My colleague has two BSA WM20. One with registration number C5212599 from order S2603. Maybe from the same military unit? Regards Edited June 18, 2020 by pawelcen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) Ron, corporal Wilson ( armoured Triumph) looks like he was riding an elephant or a mastodon. On the road!! Or field? Edited June 18, 2020 by pawelcen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Indeed Pawel. Sean Walsh told me he once rode his in his "quiet" road and it was not the nicest ride he's ever had!! Here is a scan from the prop stand pages from my 3SW (contracts 8079 & 7162) and 5SW (contract 7828) which show the clamp on stand. And my original clamp with some numbering. My 3SW is from a previous contract C6128. Neither my 3SW or 5SW had any signs of lugs being ground of or braze stains. My 5SW had its clip lug ground off. We know that changes took place before parts lists were updated but I haven't got any other 3SW parts lists to compare or guess at when a change took place. Has anyone got different lists? I think I have a spare pole....Will check and take a picture later. Edited June 19, 2020 by Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelcen Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 I don't know if these handles were welded at the factory or were they modified in military workshops? Both bikes had the same. See by the shape of the weld, is it the original workmanship and shape? The part catalog for Triumph 1939 has different part numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 We gradually learn more about these bikes Pawel. But the 1939 civy parts list which I have also is for the side (jiffy) stand, nothing to do with the WD Field stand. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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