Pattern 58 web gear assembly???

[Bilbo42]

I drink that quite often here. I kinda like it! I really am learning a lot. The history that you and the other folks are giving me is really interesting. I just wish the pound was not twice the dollar and shipping was not as high. I would really have a field day ordering stuff. For instance, I found a TUAAM protective box for 35 pounds...that's $70 plus shipping. That's stout. Bil

[Bilbo42]

Now I need to start trying to find all that stuff and get it shipped. Best regards, Bil

[Bazz]

hi Bill,

 

I'll send you a copy of the section of our training manual that deals with the components, assembling, packing and wearing of 58 Pattern Webbing. This wil be next week when i'm back on parade.

 

Barry.

[Bilbo42]

Hi Barry. That would be really great. I willlook forward to it. BIL

[Bilbo42]

I found the ARSSE forum and posted there for anyone that had served in the 212 to reply. Maybe I'll get lucky. I found the artillery cap badges on ebay.uk Very neat looking! Thnaks again. BIL

[AlienFTM]

To give you an idea, 16th/5th Lancers were a sister Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment based in Wolfenbuettel, right on the IGB near Braunschweig around this time. Their combat lifetime was estimated at around 20 minutes from the Commies crossing the IGB. The general consensus was that they were there simply as a tripwire .

 

 

I was thinking about this over the weekend, along with the thread about nicknames and the Army referring to the SAS as THEM.

 

If you read CHIEFTAINS (by IIRC Bob Forrest-Webb), about the outbreak of WW3 from the viewpoint of 14th/20th Hussars (an armoured regiment), the author is clearly very knowledgeable - maybe even serving with 14/20H - I cannot remember the question ever being asked.

 

He devotes maybe half a chapter to "Stay behind" teams, sat quietly in camouflaged bunkers while the Commies head for Calais, then springing back to life and wreaking havoc among the second echelon and supply lines.

 

These stay behind teams were expected to consist of recce troops and SAS.*

 

15/19H never (during my time in BAOR) worked with SAS as stay behind teams. If they did, I did NOT need to know. But our role was to provide the recce screen for 3 Armd Div which was entirely separate from the rest of 1 (Br) Corps. If there were to be mixed Recce / SAS stay behind teams, 16/5L would be the regiment to provide the recce element. But again I had no need to know.

 

* Contrary to popular belief, recce is the closest role to SF, not Para. For example, in German, Special Forces are Fernaufklärungstrüppe or long range recce troops.

If you ever watched GI Jane, you would know that on passing out she was posted to a CLOSE RECONNAISSANCE TEAM.

If you have read "Only The Enemy In Front" a history of the Recce Corps, you will find the raison d'etre behind its formation and IIRC actually uses the term super-human.

If you have ever read Armour Volume 2: The Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment, you will find pretty much the same words.

Whereas Para are a blunt object for dropping behind enemy lines, recce and SF are all about finesse.

[Bazz]

 

In reply to AlienFTM's comment about stay behind teams.

 

When serving in BAOR with 15/19H I can remember being roled as stay behind in the HARTZ mountain region. We used to do "adventure training" in civvies in our AOR so we could do reccies, and can remember seeing one of our bunkers in which we would hide and then when the Red Forces came past we would appear and take out their regimental/brigade hqs.

 

Barry.

[Bilbo42]

That is really fascinating guys. You have seen and done a lot! Cheers, Bil

[Snapper]

In the early 1920s the Newcastle Brewery invented Newcastle Brown Ale.

 

;o)

 

 

True. It was invented by John Millar, their master brewer. My wife's maternal grandfather. He died in 1963. We have his recipe books. Total gibberish to the unwashed. But what a product!!

[ArtistsRifles]

<snipped for brevity>

 

He devotes maybe half a chapter to "Stay behind" teams, sat quietly in camouflaged bunkers while the Commies head for Calais, then springing back to life and wreaking havoc among the second echelon and supply lines.

 

These stay behind teams were expected to consist of recce troops and SAS.*

 

15/19H never (during my time in BAOR) worked with SAS as stay behind teams. If they did, I did NOT need to know. But our role was to provide the recce screen for 3 Armd Div which was entirely separate from the rest of 1 (Br) Corps. If there were to be mixed Recce / SAS stay behind teams, 16/5L would be the regiment to provide the recce element. But again I had no need to know.

 

<snipped>

 

Whereas Para are a blunt object for dropping behind enemy lines, recce and SF are all about finesse.

 

 

In my day 21/22/23 were never tasked with liason operations with other units (other than 39 sigs), each troop/patrol operated independently with pre-assigned tasks. We had 4-man units that were undercover in Mexe hides - units would be deployed ahead of a general call to arms and were be in place when the balloon went up. During the first phase the role was to observe and report then let the FEBA roll over. sit tight for a designated period then emerge and wreak havoc.

 

The usual analogy is the SF units were the scalpel to the Para's hammer!!

 

[Bilbo42]

I just opened a bottle of Newcastle to you guys. Great stories. Cheers-bottoms up. BIL

[PeterMacD]

During this time the HAC also had a stay behind role as observers for long range artillery - much like the SAS they were to wreak havoc on the long logistical lines that would have been created, thus cutting the body from the head - then the US and reserve UK forces would have arrived to confront an enemy severely low on ammo, food and fuel, and if they didn't win the battle they would be able to create a stalemate.

 

Well, that was the plan. My old battalion would have been on the front line as a temporary buffer that was hoped would slow the Red Hordes down for a few hours. Any survivors were to regroup and form guerrilla units to do as much damage to the lines of communications as possible.

 

Bill, try this link for 212 Bty:

 

http://www.army.mod.uk/105regtrav/212_highland_battery/index.htm

 

Their history is below,

 

History of 212 (Highland) Battery (V)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1778

 

First mention of an "irregular" militia force in Arbroath is made at the time of the 'Meal mobs' when four companies were raised to preserve civil peace.

1779

 

Town council petitions Govt to provide warships as protection for convoys in the North Sea where havoc was taking place with merchant shipping.

1781

 

French privateer tries to bombard the town. A Battery, equipped with six12-pounder guns, forms on Ballast Hill in the area of what is now Hill St.

1794

 

Several Corps of volunteers recruited from all over Angus to provide coastal defence as well as carry out civil duties.

1803

 

Invasion threatened by Napoleon increases volunteer recruiting - four companies formed in Arbroath. Disbanded after peace is declared.

1859 Threats from the French - a new Volunteer Force is raised.

1860

 

Corps is combined with the 1st Brigade, Forfarshire Artillery Volunteers with Headquarters in Albany Quarters, Bell Street, Dundee.

1908

Yeomanry, Militia & Volunteers combined into one force - the Territorial Army (TA).

1908

Arbroath Battery issued with 15-pounders - used eventually in France.

1914 Battery mobilised and helped fight in most of the famous battles.

1918

Battery becomes part of 76th (Highland) Field Regiment Royal Artillery, including one battery in Arbroath.

1939

 

Battery now part of 51st Division sent to Middle East - action in El Alamein to Sicily. Action later - Normandy landings and Bremerhaven

1961

 

400th Highland (Aberdeen-Angus) Field Regiment Royal Artillery, TA, formed with HQ in Dundee - includes a gun battery in Arbroath.

1967 Govt reorganises TA and becomes the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve.

1967

 

400th Regiment disbanded. Arbroath Battery loses its guns to become part of Highland Regiment, RA (Territorials) as a Home Defence Unit.

1968

 

 

Regiment's arms and equipment were taken away. Regiment all but disbanded. Members keep the establishment ticking over and all ranks are paid a flat rate of £1 per day's training out of Regimental funds.

1969

 

The Highland Regiment disbanded. Arbroath Battery is retained as a third Battery of the 102 Ulster/Scottish Light Air Defence Regiment, Royal Artillery.

 

1986 212 (Highland) Battery now part of 105th Regiment.

1992 The Battery saw the introduction of the Javelin air defence system.

2003 Starstreak High Velocity Missile (HVM) is introduced - developing on from Javelin.

2006 Battery converts back to field artillery to the 105mm Light Gun. G Troop is formed with a parade to mark the event on the 1st Dec 06 on Shetland Island.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Burley]

Hello Bill.Just looking at the pics of your LTWT.You need to change the tyres to the Goodyear Hi-miler as seen on the one below yours,and you have a civvy rear cross member fitted.

[Bilbo42]

Yea, I know about hte civvy cross member. At some point I will get around to changing it. It is funny how many coats of different paint the crossmember has on it. And they all seem to be NATO green/black camo. My pintle hook was frozen from all the paint so I took it off and completely redid it. Under the pintle hook was the bare metal of the bumper and a single coat of NATO green. I need to post whether or not, at some point in its life, 1974-1997, the military may have fitted one for some odd reason. I don't think so, but I have been told that near the end of their life, at depot, they did that??? I'll go back and look at the tires. When these wear out I do want to get some that are more military in comparison. Hey, thanks for looking and for your comments. If you get a chance send me a pic of your mil vehicles. I once owned a 1942 GPW and sold it. I was younger and just didn't have the funds to do it right. The guy I sold it to completely resoted it and uses it for parades, etc here in town. To this day, I still say, "there goes my jeep"! Best regards, Bil

[Lord Burley]

Hello Bill.Its quicker to show you the pictures of the vehicles i have here.The jeep underwent a nut and bolt restoration 20 years ago by Tony Sudds.A respected jeep parts dealer and former restorer in the U.K

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/BLUETHUNDER_06/100_9693.jpg[/img]

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/BLUETHUNDER_06/100_9887.jpg[/img][

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/BLUETHUNDER_06/100_9585.jpg[/img]

 

My former 101 Ambulancehttp://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/BLUETHUNDER_06/ambulancefront.jpg[/img]

 

And former LtWthttp://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l38/BLUETHUNDER_06/landrover.jpg[/img]

 

 

 

 

 

[Bilbo42]

WOW. You really have some time and money involved in those vehicles. They look great! I have seen the Llwt on the net somewhere before-what color is that? You are so lucky to be in an area where all that stuff is located. It would take me forever to collect all the kit you have hanging on the vehicles, more less the vehicles. I am shooting for a 101 as my next purchase, but it will be awhile. I have another lightweight that is more an everyday drive, but ya know if I had to get rid of one it would be the good one because it doesn't look mil any more. Thanks for sharing the pics with me. Cheers, Bil

[Lord Burley]

I would keep the LtWt as they are very rare state side.Im not to sure if Kahki imports have one in stock as well as 101 at the moment.They are based in Tulsa.Regarding the kit front.I think you are best of saving your dollars and then making a trip over to the war and peace show next year and buying the bulk of your kit there.British kit is peanuts to buy compared with WW11 U.S kit and there is bundles of it at war and peace.Plus there is the added bonus that you will meet a few off here to give advice,and also the Forces 80 re-inactment group that you can ask for advice.Then you have five days of all things military.