Ian L Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Just picked up this BUTLERS B-WD-H1 headlight. Its quite obviously Military rather than civilian due to the WD & I guess it might be a blackout light of some sort but never seen one before & I guess its late war due to the small size but what vehicle was it fitted to & does anyone have a photo of one in service ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 It's a military shell but with a civilian front. The WD fronts were also marked B-WD-H1 and were a different shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Ian I believe this may be a very interesting & unusual find! You do keep finding these curiosities! I have a Vocabulary of Army Ordnance Stores Section LV6/MT3 1943 it illustrates L/WD/H1 which might seem to be the Lucas version. It has the lower 2/3 of the light blanked over & the aperture facing a vertical screen attached to the hood. So that you cannot see light if you were stood in front of the vehicle, as it should be for a normal blackout light. B/WD/HI is listed & illustrated & shows a similar blackout mask over the lens. But yours is not like that either the mask is missing or it was the modification to B/WD/H1-UV that had no mask & a 12v.ultra-violet bulb. I covered UV driving from page 14 in here:http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/Tabby01.pdf Have you looked at the bulb, is it a UV one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 The WD light itself is relatively common, but the front is unusual. I have seen an old photo of this style fitted as an extra lamp on the front of QL's which made me think of the tabby fit that Clive mentionned, but it's not a style that matches the ones in the books I've seen so far. It may just be an extra lamp of a civvy style to make driving at night safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Here's the normal blackout type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 and the UV type. If anyone has one of these, I'm looking for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 The WD light itself is relatively common, but the front is unusual. I have seen an old photo of this style fitted as an extra lamp on the front of QL's which made me think of the tabby fit that Clive mentionned, but it's not a style that matches the ones in the books I've seen so far. It may just be an extra lamp of a civvy style to make driving at night safer. I've seen a wartime /period photo of one on the L/H side of a QL too but didn't like to mention it :embarrassed: cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Ian I believe this may be a very interesting & unusual find! You do keep finding these curiosities! And I've found another interesting part Clive which I will post as soon as I've taken photos :-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Here's the normal blackout type. [ATTACH=CONFIG]112421[/ATTACH] Lauren, I am after one of those for the Loyd, the original lamps that I have are IIRC Lucas ones, the Loyds manual states either Butler or Lucas so I presume it was a lucky dip as to which manufactures unit was fitted at any given time on the production line. Do you know if the Lucas blackout cover fits either lamp or is there a specific Lucas version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Here is the Lucas version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Lucas and Butler used a different style of fitting on their lamps so though interchangeable as assemblies, the individual parts are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B. Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I've got one of these masks squirrelled away with a few other lights but can't remember it too clearly. I think it's a mask only without shell or reflector. I certainly can't remember seeing the "Butlers" stamp in what is a very unusual position. I have always thought of it as being a WD item, part of a spot or driving lamp and the pictured lens and focus fittings would confirm that. I'm sure that I've seen one fitted at bumper level on a Humber Snipe being used for filming in the late sixties or early seventies,although that confirms nothing. Whether the mask is a WD item or not I don't know although it has all the appearance of being right with the exception of a WD prefix or designation being stamped on it. It does not feature in the 1943 VAOS catalogue either but might in another edition (Clive ? ) If if the mask,lens and shell appear to have spent their life together in the factory black paint,in the absence of any conflicting documentary evidence I would consider it to be an auxiliary spot lamp possibly fitted to the faster WD vehicles such as staff cars. Does it appear in any parts lists ? David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 It does not feature in the 1943 VAOS catalogue either but might in another edition (Clive ? ) David it does actually. I missed it first time, the layout is not entirely logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B. Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) No Clive - the headlight is the same but the mask is different. If you look at your picture the bottom edge of the mask shroud is horizontal but on Ian's mask is sloping upward. It is a different mask but the same headlight body. The mask is the oddity. Edited January 30, 2016 by David B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Sorry I just thought you wanted to see the entry in the VAOS, I wasn't making a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Lucas and Butler used a different style of fitting on their lamps so though interchangeable as assemblies, the individual parts are not. My Austin has one of each fitted, and a mixture of shells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B. Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Sorry I just thought you wanted to see the entry in the VAOS, I wasn't making a statement. No,my apologies Clive. I was just wondering if the mask appeared in a later edition of the VAOS. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 My Austin has one of each fitted, and a mixture of shells. Indeed, you can fit a Butler rim to a Lucas shell but it's not so easy the other way round as Butler used a slightly larger diameter which I'm sure was no accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Indeed, you can fit a Butler rim to a Lucas shell but it's not so easy the other way round as Butler used a slightly larger diameter which I'm sure was no accident. Yep I agree Adrian, I have quite a few spare shells so I must get round to swopping them around & making a correct pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 On that subject, does anybody have literature confirming when the DP marked blackout fronts came into use? I assume it means 'dual purpose' as they are obviously intended as blackout or normal night driving with the flip up flap. I have always though of them as post-war but would like to know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Lamp, Head, Lucas Type M1471/1/DP is listed in VAOS Nov 1943 this includes Mask, WD pattern, which is listed separately as MT3/84601 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I wonder if that's the same thing Clive, does it have an image? I haven't found any listing in any of my armoured vehicle books nor a wartime picture of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Sorry Adrian it has no image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) The DP version is shown in both Comet and Cromwell workshop manuals, 1947 /48. Edited January 30, 2016 by Lauren Child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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