teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm not sure what this thread will add to the current body of knowledge but thought it might be helpful for somebody, I guess doing it in another country is a bit novel and will have some different challenges here and there. Partly so the history of this particular vehicle is documented. It seemed like a good idea at the time? About 9-months back I bought a Scorpion-turreted Scimitar from Terry Brooks. It took months and stupid amounts of money to get to sunny California but it's here and the project has grown. I had hoped to just do some repairs and then have something to tinker with, but not I know why most CVR(T) repair / restoration threads at some point show a stripped hull. Attached is a photo of 65247 I was luck enough to find in-service during one of the Somali operations and a couple photos at it was being unloaded from the container. At first I thought it was really dirty white paint but looking closely it seems to be a thin, faded, and flaking layer of what we used to call khaki but now that we keep fighting in the desert seems to have as many names as an Eskimo has words for snow so that suggests service after Rwanda as well but I'm not sure where to find that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 The state of things on arrival: Instrument cluster-missing traverse gearbox-missing exhaust system- so rusted it was just a pile int the mesh motor-flooded for years, total write-off tracks- droopy but not awful sprockets- excellent road wheels- mostly good, about 3 peeling badly hydraulics- pipes rusted away, total overhaul needed. turret basket- completely frozen steering calipers- just lumps of rust really, total overhaul at least clutch-frozen into one lump gearbox- hard to say, the oil looks good at least. I had hoped to not need to completely strip out the running gear but the cap-screws for the steering calipers stripped out so I guess the gearbox is coming out along with the rest of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 I've got the decks off, motor, bulkheads, and hydraulics out. Pumped 65 gallons of water out of the gas tank. I've split both tracks and gotten one driveshaft out of the gearbox. The other driveshaft won't come out, I pushed in what was left of the pin and pulled the shaft. The outside half of the shaft came out but the inner section connecting the gearbox to the final drive is still stuck. I'm not sure if I should try removing brake caliper and the final drive on that side or if there is a better solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 decks off and my entry to the "most rusted exhaust system" contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Luckily I had a spare driver's floor. A couple photos showing my sponson straightening rig and a picture of my front sponson after some work. It's stretched enough I expect to need heat or cutting to get it flat but at least I don't slide off while walking on it now. Edited June 14, 2015 by teletech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Here's where I'm stuck. One driveshaft stuck in the gearbox. If I have to pull a final drive, do I pull the one on the stuck side or pull the one on the free side just to make room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Remove the one on the stuck side. You won't be able to slide the gearbox left or right due to how it locates on the hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 There is a bulge in the steering caliper so it has to come inboard about 1/4" before sliding out. it looks like you could do that up top but my steering calipers won't come off to make room. So: I can't get the final drive out without removing the brake caliper. I can't seem to get the brake caliper out past the gearbox. If I could remove the gearbox I wouldn't be removing the final drive. I've tried lifting the gearbox to slide it over just slightly but as has been rightly pointed out, the mounts in the hull are very restrictive. If I try to remove the final drive it might allow me a slightly better angle, or wedge things in even worse. clues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Remove the final drive, it will come off leaving the drive shaft in place. You can then remove the shaft more easily. You need to disconnect and remove the hand brake cable and the brake pads. Undo the bolts holding the caliper in place, they go through the final drive too. You should be able to then remove the caliper and the final drive, leaving the hand brake bands is place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Just got it. The final drive was captive on the brake caliper so I couldn't remove it. I managed to disassemble the steering caliper which made room for the brake caliper to slide out so I could remove the final drive. some pounding and the rest of the driveshaft came out so I expect I should have the gearbox on the ground in :15 whew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadawg Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This promises to be an interesting thread! And a huge amount of work!! I enjoyed reading your thread on steel soldiers site describing the journey from UK to California. Keep the pix coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Well, based on the amount of water that came out of the final drive I decided to remove the other one as well which drained rusty so obviously that was the thing to do. They will both be replaced with good spares from the Sturgeon that was in good working order back in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This promises to be an interesting thread! And a huge amount of work!! I enjoyed reading your thread on steel soldiers site describing the journey from UK to California. Keep the pix coming. ditto, subscribed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadawg Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Well, based on the amount of water that came out of the final drive I decided to remove the other one as well which drained rusty so obviously that was the thing to do. They will both be replaced with good spares from the Sturgeon that was in good working order back in 2013. Probably a dumb question, but why is there so much water in the engine bay? Things look very rusty. Is that just from sitting outside? I would have thought the compartment would be rain proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Probably a dumb question, but why is there so much water in the engine bay? Things look very rusty. Is that just from sitting outside? I would have thought the compartment would be rain proof. Nothing on these kind of vehicles is rain proof! They are always full of water if left outside uncovered, and they are always left outside uncovered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I see most the guys drill holes in the bottom of them to allow them to drain. I am sure someone will chime in for the best locations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Probably a dumb question, but why is there so much water in the engine bay? Things look very rusty. Is that just from sitting outside? I would have thought the compartment would be rain proof. Oh no, anything but rain proof. Turns out armor is very often very leaky from above. The hatches tend to be leaky, turret bearings don't really seal, etc. The main cause is the ventilation system for the engine, the bit that would be the front grille on a passenger vehicle winds up pointing upwards! Add to that the bottom of the hull is armored and you have created a perfect system for collecting water (and dirt, all the dust and dirt that gets pulled through the louvers or shed as they are walked-on settles and stays). There is a drain in the hull but for whatever reason it often isn't opened or winds up clogged (I found a dead bird and a much battered round of .308 in my engine bay along with the 30lbs or so of soil) so it is VERY common for CVR(T) to have inches to have over a foot of water in them if they were not carefully stored which wrecks all sorts of havoc on the hydraulics and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 More progress, the turret is off the vehicle. I need to get back to my real job but I just noticed I *could* take tomorrow off but the two hour drive each way... hmm... not sure what do do next anyway. I suppose I'll go to the effort of dragging what's left outside to pressure-wash the hull before doing much more and then I need to decide between a needle-scaler and paint stripper for the outside lower hull. Of course I need to locate the holes for the Messiers and it seems like it would be a good time to do that while the drives are out. I know I saw instructions around here somewhere... Pictures: water flowing out of the final drive, the back half of the driveshaft after some pounding so it's finally coming out. Also the damage to the front torsion bar tunnel, I wonder what happened there? The suspension seems normal now so I assume a broken bar as some past time, perhaps a thrown track or something as there is also damage to the very rear hull where the grousers dug in. It was well displaced upward along much of it's length, I've pounded it flat and will TIG it up before the new gearbox goes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Probably a dumb question, but why is there so much water in the engine bay? Things look very rusty. Is that just from sitting outside? I would have thought the compartment would be rain proof. The one that gets me is how I managed to have 2/3 of a fuel tank full of water. the fuel cap recessed into the top deck and having no way to shed water, a simple drain cut off to the side and run out the hull would have been a huge help. Still, it has it's blessings after all, how would we recognize each other without that special "old tank smell"? If you think the wife is nonplussed now, let's just say I recommend having some designated fussing with armor clothes that you either wash yourself or quietly dispose of after use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mill comms Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 The one that gets me is how I managed to have 2/3 of a fuel tank full of water. the fuel cap recessed into the top deck and having no way to shed water, a simple drain cut off to the side and run out the hull would have been a huge help. Still, it has it's blessings after all, how would we recognize each other without that special "old tank smell"? If you think the wife is nonplussed now, let's just say I recommend having some designated fussing with armor clothes that you either wash yourself or quietly dispose of after use. Torsion bar tunnel damage is caused by water entering this compartment and freezing in the winter. I have had several CVRT with this similar damage caused by water and frost.Very powerfull thing trapped water and sub zero temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 You got a lot of work to do but its good to see people willing to undertaske a project like that. Good luck and when completed don't scare the locals to much while driving it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Torsion bar tunnel damage is caused by water entering this compartment and freezing in the winter. I have had several CVRT with this similar damage caused by water and frost.Very powerfull thing trapped water and sub zero temperatures. Ah, that makes sense! thanks for the info, makes me more confidant there isn't any other damage I need to look for other than cleaning out the tube well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Well, I caught something of a break, well a few things broke actually. I had to drill out the cap screws holding the steering calipers to the gearbox, the .25" pilot hole sunk easily enough. Sadly the larger bits had a really rough time, out into the hardening of the bolt or something. I eventually stepped them out and tried a broken bolt extractor (Snap-on so not junk), snapped it right off. Oh, great, a nice hardened steel plug in my hole, that could have been really bad. Luckily I had drilled a large enough hole deep enough that I was able to pry on the caliper and break what was left of the bolt. I still wasn't at all looking forward to just job of drilling out the lower portion of the bolt but it turns out it was only the head that was a problem, the threaded remnant came right out. All four of my steering calipers look really nasty, the friction material popped right off all the pads, even the ones that weren't very rusty. Looking at that I'd suggest everybody install new pads if you don't positively KNOW yours are not rusted or contaminated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I have had real problems with two of these allen bolts in the past. In both cases it was the head that was jammed in the recess - presumably expanded due to corrosion - with both of them the threaed portion was easily turned by hand once the head was off. Flaking friction material also seems to be a common problem... Enjoying the thread keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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