must haves

[handler 69]

What are the MUST HAVES on a Saracen. What is the kit list for the pucka sad can? :cool2:

Cheers

Troy

[handler 69]

Sorry to be a pain, but does anyone know how the cans were badged for the 9/12th lancers? Mine has seen action, I just re-read the data card and History report and found that this Saracen served with 15/19 Hussars (NI) , 13/18 Royal Hussars 1971-72 and a few transport Sqns after that to 74, providing drivers for the Infantry regiments deployed at Long Kesh. Can anyone help me please? Got some pics of her that Iam posting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is whay Iam chasing those smoke dischargers

[AlienFTM]

Sorry to be a pain, but does anyone know how the cans were badged for the 9/12th lancers? Mine has seen action, I just re-read the data card and History report and found that this Saracen served with 15/19 Hussars (NI) , 13/18 Royal Hussars 1971-72 and a few transport Sqns after that to 74, providing drivers for the Infantry regiments deployed at Long Kesh. Can anyone help me please? Got some pics of her that Iam posting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is whay Iam chasing those smoke dischargers

 

9/12L took over from us (15/19H) in Lisanelly Barracks, Omagh in May 1976. Istr our troop had a Saracen but tbh we did all our work in pairs of one FFR and one FSC. Bazz may be able to help more: he got there before me.

 

Only time I came across a Saracen in Omagh was a rush job one evening when we headed off out after dark to support a troop whose Saracen had broken down. It being dark, I didn't see any markings at all and I don't recall a plethora of markings on the FSCs or FFRs (NI being an operational zone and our only other regular hangout being West Germany where there were spies on every corner, for Opsec's sake nothing was ever made easy for the other side by putting anything useful by way of markings onto vehicles).

 

An old buddy of mine just found the RAC Resident Regiment at Omagh Facebook group and posted some pictures of our time. See if you can have a look in there and get some inspiration. Be aware that the site is rigorously policed and any movement off-topic (which I imagine includes people asking about colour schemes etc) is stomped upon. Still it could be worse. You wouldn't even be allowed into the 15/19 The Kings Royal Hussars group cos it's entirely private and by invitation only.

 

Needless to say, If you cannot get onto the Omagh group, I cannot help you acquire other people's photographic property.

 

;o)

 

I have taken a look at the Omagh pictures which whilst not conclusive tend to support my position that little if any markings were carried beyond the number plate.

[Marmite!!]

 

This is whay Iam chasing those smoke dischargers

 

They were probably removed for export reasons as they are probably illegal in your country.. check with your Firearms Dept & see if you can get an import licence before going any further in your search for dischargers.. no point buying something that could get seized at the border or land you in trouble with the law..

[RecyMech]

In terms of markings for NI....in my experience, no gegimental markings of any sort were ever used on vehicles on IS tours. I've only ever seen the VRN (obviously) & ATO/Felix markings used. Certainly never the Union flag displayed in NI ops.

 

Also in BAOR by 1972 makings were getting ever smaller & fewer of. Gone were the large colourful 6" square Div Signs

 

QOH vehicles in Hohne, 1972 for example carried only;-

a black white patch about 6" x 2" bearing the numerals 7/2

a black patch with a fern leaf also about 6" x 2"

a blue patch with the white horse of Hannover about 4" x 2" (B vehicles only)

& the usual union flag

 

Best regs.....H

[RecyMech]

Also, curiously.....the mod plate appears to say Mk2 (I could be wrong) & yet it is fitted with beehives which indicates a Mk3.

Granted a Mk3 is just a Mk2 with RFC conversion.....just wondered about the plate.

 

H

[handler 69]

Yes it does say MK 2 on the plate. Well it looks like I will have to get the $800 set of smokies LOL.

So the West German just the British flag on them? That will sve me a small fortune then in decals LOL.

[Marmite!!]

This is the page you need to look at if you are thinking of importing dischargers http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4372.asp With just a quick look I would think "Items of warfare" would be relevant..

[handler 69]

I would have to get an import permit from the Aussie MOD, they are usually pretty good about these kind of things. As long as the local cops are fine with it, no problems. I would be more than happy with plans to make the sets myself, does anyone have something like that?

Thanks

Troy

[AlienFTM]

Yes it does say MK 2 on the plate. Well it looks like I will have to get the $800 set of smokies LOL.

So the West German just the British flag on them? That will sve me a small fortune then in decals LOL.

 

In West Germany I'd expect to see a squadron tac sign:

triangle = A Sqn

square = B Sqn

circle = C Sqn

diamond = HQ Sqn

 

There has been much discussion on HMVF how to do these: I shan't repeat. You could reasonably expect to have a callsign either painted onto the back and maybe the sides or onto a removable board on the back (per 15/19H) so that should the owner of the callsign (the vehicle commander) move to another vehicle, he can take his callsign with him.

 

Callsign for a Saracen in a cavalry regiment in the BRD? I'd presume it would be for Assault / Support / Surveillance / whatever the support troop was called this week and what you want to represent it as.

 

Assault Troop was, as the name suggests, a troop of mechanised infantry to assault and hold a target.

Support Troop was ... a support troop

Surveillance Troop carried ZB298 Doppler Ground Surveillance Radars to detect incoming vehicles and infantry.

 

Support troops in whatever form (one troop per squadron) took the squadron number (1=A, 2=B etc) followed by the number 6 to indicate a support troop followed by:

 

Nothing for the troop leader, e.g 26

A for the troop sergeant = 26A

B troop corporal = 26B

C for troop second corporal = 26C

 

Tac signs and callsigns were applied locally, usually using local-manufacture templates. There must be pictures out there somewhere.

[handler 69]

Thats great, I will put him in BAOR colours then

So where can I find pics of them in BAOR service? Did they have the black/green camo scheme? Any flashing lights etc.

If Iam still looking at having him serving with the 9/12th what role would they have been doing? How long were they operational in West Germany? Mine still has the bren gun ring, would the bren be the 7.62 version?

Thanks

Troy

Edited August 30, 2013 by handler 69

[AlienFTM]

Thats great, I will put him in BAOR colours then

So where can I find pics of them in BAOR service? Did they have the black/green camo scheme? Any flashing lights etc.

If Iam still looking at having him serving with the 9/12th what role would they have been doing? How long were they operational in West Germany? Mine still has the bren gun ring, would the bren be the 7.62 version?

Thanks

Troy

 

Not sure when 9/12L came back to BAOR after Omagh. My guess would be late 77 (eighteen months behind us in Omagh then ditto in Tidworth). It's quite possible they had Saracen APCs for Surveillance Troops. (In 15/19H we had two medium recce squadrons, B and C which each had a Surveillance Troop of iirc four Saracen APCs. The official Orbat for a BAOR Recce Regt was that A and B were medium recce and C was close recce - no surveillance troops, just five big troops of eight Scimitars to be allocated around the division's other battlegroups. But I was told on my Control Signallar course in 1978 that not one of the then incumbent BAOR Recce Regts had implemented the Orbat correctly by assigning C Sqn to be close recce. So your guess is as good as mine as to which 9/12L squadron was close and which were medium recce.)

 

Everything was green and black in BAOR (officially 2/3 green to 1/3 black: in winter, white might be applied to 1/2 the green to make it 1/3 green, 1/3 white and 1/3 black. That happened to us for one winter: a bucket of whitewash that rubbed off in the course of a two-week winter exercise.)

 

No flashing lights.

 

We got rid of our Saracens about 1979: Command Troop and FHQs got Sultan to replace Saracen ACVs and Surveillance Troops got Spartan to replace Saracen APCs. If memory serves, 9/12L got Sultan (and probably Spartan) ahead of us, either because they were just arriving in theatre so it saved a cycle of conversion or because their division got it before ours (3 Armd Div). But I may be wrong.

 

Did they have "Bren" (7.62mm LMG)? I honestly cannot remember. If they did have Saracen, it might have been anything that could be provided by the Ordnance Depot at Moenchengladbach. The latter tried to fob us off with APCRA (Armoured Command Post Royal Artillery) Saracens instead of ACVs because it was what they had. We soon spotted the error and drove them all the way back across West Germany (very slowly: they were lumbering brutes) to replace them.

 

It is quite possible that 9/12L had Saracen APCs in some role before moving to Omagh in May 1976, but sadly I'll have to leave you to research that.