WW1 De Dion for sale on Milweb

[Great War truck]

In Switzerland. Asking price 25,000Euros. Heck of a lot of money but very complete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rick W]

Probably a daft question, but does it have 2 cylinder heads? If so, why?

[Redherring]

A gem. 2-cylinder heads or 2 cylinder-heads? Or both! Pretty standard motor for the times. Perhaps it was easier then to cast cylinders in pairs to incorporate water-cooling.

[Jack Innes]

Actually it has no heads at all. The cylinders & heads are all one piece bolted to the crank case. Notice the large plugs on the top of the engine. These are to access the valves. As mentioned before it was common practice at that time to cast cylinder "jugs" in pairs or even single cylinders.

[Richard Peskett]

A little more on the engine design. The engine layout had very much become standard by 1914 with cylinders being cast in pairs , valves being on one side and non detachable heads ( blind bores). Earlier engines and in particular the twin shaft Austin still had cylinder blocks cast as individual blocks for each cylinder and often valves to each side ( two camshafts known as 'T' head). UK manufacturers lagged behind somewhat in design and by 1915 or earlier the Buda engine in Jeffery-Quads was monoblock , 'L' head and soon after detachable cylinder heads became normal practice. It was to be several more years before UK manufacturers generally took up this feature. Provision for an electric starter and lighting was included in the USA 'Liberty' truck design of 1917. As late as 1937 an electric starter was optional on a petrol engine AEC 'Matador' goods chassis. Interestingly Gardner diesels with the 5 and 6 LW series still split the cylinder blocks as either 3 & 2 or 3 & 3 for a great number of years. Regarding the asking price of E25000, is this really so much for what seems a reasonably complete and genuine WW 1 truck ? prices have moved on here considerably in the last few years , the equivalent sterling amount will possibly only get you 2 Austin 7s now . I remember paying the grand sum of £ 289 for my Jeffery-Quad in 1979 when purchasing it from ther owners of the LeMans motor racing circuit.

Richard Peskett.

[mcspool]

Regarding the asking price of E25000, is this really so much for what seems a reasonably complete and genuine WW 1 truck ? prices have moved on here considerably in the last few years , the equivalent sterling amount will possibly only get you 2 Austin 7s now . I remember paying the grand sum of £ 289 for my Jeffery-Quad in 1979 when purchasing it from ther owners of the LeMans motor racing circuit.

 

I was fascinated to see this well-preserved relic coming up for sale. While 25kEUR is a lot of money of course, I wonder how much man hours and materials one spends on the basket cases we see being restored here on HMVF. I'd guess the conclusion is that 25kEUR would not be a bad price for this De Dion truck.

 

As for your grand sum paid back in 1979, I always wonder about what seem low prices quoted by the collectors who have been into this hobby for a long time. Looking around I found this site http://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/ which calculates that in 2011, the relative value of £289 from 1979 ranged from £1,110 (for a commodity) to £2,187. Would the latter be a more realistic figure for today's price for your Jeffery-Quad? I'd say with the increasing rarity of these old relics, the price would be higher today.

Edited June 10, 2013 by mcspool

[Great War truck]

I agree. I certainly dont doubt that it is worth £25,000, i just cant see anybody paying that much for it.

[Minesweeper]

I was fascinated to see this well-preserved relic coming up for sale. While 25kEUR is a lot of money of course, I wonder how much man hours and materials one spends on the basket cases we see being restored here on HMVF. I'd guess the conclusion is that 25kEUR would not be a bad price for this De Dion truck.

 

I think that you are probably quite correct - much cheaper to buy one already restored! But what do you want from the project - the satisfaction of restoring it yourself - or just having a "toy" to drive around in? Tony

[mcspool]

I think that you are probably quite correct - much cheaper to buy one already restored! But what do you want from the project - the satisfaction of restoring it yourself - or just having a "toy" to drive around in?

Agree, I know guys who love restoring a vehicle and then sell it as they don't like driving, and those who do it the other way around.

 

And then of course there is also the famous quote from MLU: "Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?"

[Redherring]

Driving what started off as a "bucket of bolts" has a certain appeal to me. For now I can only imagine the satisfaction of driving my Leylands.

[Richard Peskett]

This is what I got for my £289 ( FF3000) back in May 1979 , one 1915 Jeffery-Quad model 4016B as removed from the undergrowth at Le Mans.

 

 

 

Richard Peskett.

[ArtistsRifles]

Maybe the forthcoming 100th anniversary of the start of WW1 may be reflected in the asking price?? It's a lovely looking vehicle though and even without the forthcoming events looks to be worth the asking price. :-)

[Great War truck]

Richard

 

What were the main challenges faced in your Quad restoration? The rad was destroyed in the fire I presume. What condition was the engine, gearbox etc in. To restore that truck today at current prices how much do you think it would have cost?

[Richard Peskett]

Tim,

Lots of questions and circumstances to be taken into consideration !. I think I will start a separate thread about 'How we have acquired our vehicles ' , I think it will make interesting reading looking back. The Quad had not actually been on fire , it had been owned by the LeMan 24 hour circuit owners since 1921, used as a maintenance vehicle at the circuit and probably has the fame of being the only vehicle to attend every 24 hour race from then until 1978. it had eventually been abandoned in the corner of a field which was used for camping /car parking at race times, the body had been used for camp fire wood and the radiator had been torn out for its scrap value, fortunately the mounting brackets were still in place , but the whole vehicle had eventually become completely overgrown but remained virtually complete mechanically. I soon amassed a resonable amount of literature , as a new concept there was plenty published about it. 1979 was before I opened my restoration workshop as such so work was done evenings and weekends, nevertheless 23 months saw it finished and sucessfully taking part in the London to Brighton commercial run. Most components on a Quad come in 2s or 4s, axles, steering parts , brakes all being interchangable side to side , end to end. Totally dismantled , cleaned, inspected etc. most parts had survived well but all universal joints were rebuilt and all bearings replaced ( Timken tapers and lots of them, most were still listed and I did a deal with Timken for publicity ) big financial saving !. New Dunlop solid tyres. Engine completely rebuilt, gearbox - only replaced the bearings, the main drive a massive Morse inverted tooth chain was still very servicible. Marstons made the new 'honeycomb' radiator core ( the largest thay had made at the time), made the case ourselves and used the original mounting brackets. Cab built to photographs, period commercial body built using contemporary ironwork from a spare Fiat body I had. Painted civillian colours as other early solid tyre lorries being restored then ,there was little interest in WW1 until I restored the Thornycroft 'J' mobile anti-aircraft gun lorry for IWM in 1987.

The cost today if carried out in our commercial workshop would exceed £50k. Just start to add up the hours spent !!. If you costed it out at the rate charged when servicing your modern car by your local friendly main agent you would probably add another nought .

Richard Peskett.