mazungumagic Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I stumbled over this image of LC 1357 today, while I was checking the place names mentioned in a War Diary of the 1st Light Car Patrol (or the 1st Australian Armoured Car Section, as it was initially). The pic was in a book titled "Chauvel of the Light Horse" by Alec Hill and I found it interesting because of the limit straps on the rear axle. Never seen these before on a WW 1 Model T, but I guess they would have been a valuable addition. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustaf Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I have seen something similar on the front axle in period photos. Not on the back, but then the front is more often photographed. Best Gus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Innes Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 The "limit straps" on the rear would certainly help prevent spring breakage due to the rough terrain the car would be driven over. The idea was probably taken from trucks as well as many other larger vehicles of the period. Many broken springs are the result of the axle over-extending downward as the vehicle bounces over an obstruction. Shown is a White truck with its original straps in place and a 1911 Cadillac under restoration with new, exact copies of its original equipment straps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) The "limit straps" on the rear would certainly help prevent spring breakage due to the rough terrain the car would be driven over. The idea was probably taken from trucks as well as many other larger vehicles of the period. Many broken springs are the result of the axle over-extending downward as the vehicle bounces over an obstruction. Shown is a White truck with its original straps in place and a 1911 Cadillac under restoration with new, exact copies of its original equipment straps. I have also been considering the action of springs in rough terrain and the result of axle dropping if the vehicle leaves the ground. I figure the none located axle shackle, normally the trailing shackle which is double jointed can flip to the other side in this situation and this is a good reason for limit straps. I also think this would have been true of the T which has a double joint as does the White, the Cadillac arrangement I am not so sure of. Here are a couple of images showing the 'problem' First image - as designed Second image - flipped My own question is how the limit straps were originally designed on the trailers. I will probably never know although there is some photographic evidence of straps and chains in the area directly above the wheel on more than one trailer! If only they had shone a lamp underneath when taking the pictures. Tom Edited January 1, 2013 by Charawacky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kufra Kiwi Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I stumbled over this image of LC 1357 today, while I was checking the place names mentioned in a War Diary of the 1st Light Car Patrol (or the 1st Australian Armoured Car Section, as it was initially). The pic was in a book titled "Chauvel of the Light Horse" by Alec Hill and I found it interesting because of the limit straps on the rear axle. Never seen these before on a WW 1 Model T, but I guess they would have been a valuable addition. Jack Interesting to see the badge on the passenger door, showing an NZ silver fern over an Aussie boomerang. I have never seen that before and assume it was an early attempt at an ANZAC badge that unfortunately never took on. Appropriate that the silver fern is on top!! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazungumagic Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Tom, I hadn't thought about the spring shackles, but you might be right. What really interests me is that I've only seen this device on a staff car ! I've looked at any number of Model Ts in the Light Car Patrols, but there's been no sign of these limiters on them. It's probably one more example of the folk at HQ getting all the good kit before the PBI, or its equivalent in the LCPs. Gus, Rear shots are very rare and frustratingly so, at times. Only a small percentage of the Light Car Patrol photos I've seen, display the rear of the vehicle - though I've seen enough to make a pretty good guess at how it was constructed. As I'm sure you have. KK, No doubt the design was compiled by a K©areful Kiwi and the rest of the Division was too tired to care. No, I'm sure that's not correct - I think (being serious now), that the boomerang from a heraldic viewpoint, is always displayed this way, ie facing up and it was aesthetically acceptable that the fern be intertwined on top. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Innes Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I figure the none located axle shackle, normally the trailing shackle which is double jointed can flip to the other side in this situation and this is a good reason for limit straps. I also think this would have been true of the T which has a double joint as does the White, the Cadillac arrangement I am not so sure of. Tom, You are very correct on the undesirable action of the shaclkes on many vehicles. I actually have a 1954 Ford convertible that I use in the summer & it will flip its shackles if you jack it up - usually only on one side giving quite unsettling results. If you study the White picture above you will see that they solved the problem with a closed end at the top of the shackle making it impossible to flip over. The Cadillac platform spring design will not allow the shackle problem either. Still, in both cases the main leaves can break if the limit straps were not there. The Gabriel snubbers used on the extended model T chassis mentioned in the original text also have a limiting effect as do modern shock absorbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosunAl Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I recently acquired a 1:32 lead Model-T circa 1913. My first choice is as a British Staff Car as I have some TAW staff figures, but am unsure how to finish it. Would appreciate your comments on the following questions: - Presently it's left-hand drive, but converting it to right-hand drive shouldn't be too difficult. Does anyone know if the Brits had any right-hand drive Ts? - As to the color: Should an early-war T be dark green, khaki or what? I would think brown leather seats, black floor mats, and no brass would be appropriate. Am thinking of doing the headlights silver with a yellow tint. - As to WD numbers: I've seen pictures of Ts in the Near East with WD numbers of LC^####, but I think I've also seen them in Britain or the Western Front as M^####. Comments? Thank's for your time . . . Bosun Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazungumagic Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Bosun Al, As far as I know, the British Army used Model Ts which were produced in their Manchester, England factory. I'm not sure about what was produced there - ie whether during the Great War, it was the whole car or whether like other countries, it was just the body with the chassis and motor shipped out from the US or Canada. Regardless of that, the English vehicles were RHD and all the photos I've seen are consistent in that regard. The external paint colour would have probably varied from theatre to theatre and the exact colour would be difficult to determine given that black and white was pretty much the only film available. Some form of khaki green would have been appropriate for the Western Front, while a yellow/brown tint may have been used in the Middle East. The replica I'm producing will be yellow/brown. Without exception, the vehicle numbers I've seen in the Middle East have used the prefix LC (for Light Car), broad arrow and then the vehicle number. I agree with you about the Western Front - I've seen the M prefix there too. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Some form of khaki green would have been appropriate for the Western Front, while a yellow/brown tint may have been used in the Middle East. The replica I'm producing will be yellow/brown. Jack Hi Jack. I am most interested in your suggestion that the colour in the Middle East would be 'yellow/brown'. Do you have any evidence for that? It is the most logical colour and the sort of thing we have in mind for our Peerless when we get around to it but we have never seen a mention of any colour except Khaki-green. We would love to see some sort of reference, even if only a written description. Cheers! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazungumagic Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Steve, I wish I could point to some conclusive proof of the colour, but I can't. There are various shades of grey in the black and white photos I've seen, but there's no evidence of colour either way and the differences could simply be dust or mud. The only pointer I have is the water colour which you may have seen of a Model T Light Car, from what I've been told is the 16th Irish Division, ie I was also advised that the 16th Irish was never deployed to the desert, so this water colour painting might well be regarded as more fanciful than conclusive. All the best in your quest and if you find anything, I would very much like to be told - preferably before I paint my Model T !! Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thanks Jack. As soon as we know for certain, we will spread the word! Cheers! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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