Danny P Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 At the moment I’m restoring the wooden GS-body and frame work of my Bedford MW. I have made a new hardwood frame (see pictures) as the original one was partially rotten and inhabited by woodworms. Now I’m trying to find out which correct bolts are used to keep the frame together since I doubt whether my bolts are original. Can anyone help on this: 1. There are four corner plates on the inside of the frame at the back of the vehicle (see picture below). These plates were bolted with 5/16 inch carriage bolts, lock washers and square nuts. Is this correct and what should be the correct diameter of the carriage bolt head? I’ve seen other carriage bolts (i.e. on front board of the GS-body) with bigger heads on other vehicles. The dimension of the carriage bolts head used on my GS-body is 0.7 inches (1.8 cm) diameter. Is this correct? 2. Same question about the bolts used with the angle brackets on the front beam of the frame and connected to the cabin (see picture below). Which (carriage) bolts and nuts (dimensions) are used (2 brackets, 4 bolts)? 3. Finally, same question about the cross linking of the frame (see picture below). Which (carriage) bolts and nuts (dimensions) are used connecting the cross-beams to the two main (chassis) beams? Are the bolts also connected to the four wooden shims below the two main beams or are these shims screwed from below? Thanks, Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans prijs Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 hello danny nice woodwork i dont now what kind of bolts you need for the woodwork hans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fayjo56 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Nice work! Keep the pictures coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Is this structure normal? I understand that the WOT2H shared the same GS back with the MW (it was made by Bedford) but mine has a large hatch in the floor to get to the top of the rear axle/diff. I'm not with it at the moment but from memory it looks bigger than the gaps you've got there. I may be going barmy though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Is this structure normal? I understand that the WOT2H shared the same GS back with the MW (it was made by Bedford) but mine has a large hatch in the floor to get to the top of the rear axle/diff. I'm not with it at the moment but from memory it looks bigger than the gaps you've got there. I may be going barmy though. First my thanks to all the replies, especially to John (rippo) who helped me with the bolts! About the structure of the frame work I can mention the following: The two wooden main beams of the frame are on the chassis beams and are as wide as the chassis itself I would say, the distance between them is therefore fixed and is about 29 inches. The length of these wooden main beams are running from the end of the cabin to the end of the chassis and do not extend at the rear. On the end of the main beams is the tail beam also equal to the end of the chassis. The distance between the cross beams to which the mudguards are bolted are to some extend determined by the wheels itself which is about 35 inches. The little beam in the middle is located above the rear axle and is supporting the wheel arches as also the cross beams do. The hatch is located between the main beams of course and the nearest edge of the cross beams. The hatch is not as wide as the distance between the two main beams. So I would say this is the logical approach and maybe the picture is misleading. What I like to know is the exact width of the hatch between the two main beams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Thanks! Sorry I completely missed that this was an introduction - welcome along you've got some excellent work there I'll measure up the hatch on mine tomorrow and let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Hello, The frame you have, and describe looks correct to me. All the bodys were similar but not exactly the same. I have seen a body with two trap doors (two half size ones), and the body on my dads mw has no trap door! Lauren, it is interesting you say vauxhall made the bodies, i've never heard that before? Here's some pictures of mine, i'll measure it later, [ATTACH=CONFIG]70871[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70872[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70873[/ATTACH] Hello, Thank you Lauren Child for your welcome! What I've heard is that the production of the bodies were outsourced to local carpenters and that they used what was available at that moment. Maybe that's why we see some differences in design? John (rippo), the pictures are very useful to me to finish my body. Could you therefore please measure: • the dimensions of the hatch and slats (length and width) • thickness of the floor shelfs (to check the thickness of mine) • How about the floor shelfs? are they all of the same width? I have some the same, one very narrow (next to the floor hatch) and one very wide (at the tail of the vehicle next to the tailgate) Is it possible to get some detailed pictures of the hatch (metal levers and the wooden locking pins from beneath) as I will try to make a copy of them. Are the metal levers somewhere available? many thanks, Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 John, This is remarkable. Mine is about 1.2 inches (3 cm). I've studied the picture below with the following conclusion: You can see from the side the floor shelfs, lath beneath the shelfs (front and rear) and metal floor angles on top of the shelfs (front and rear). I've measured my metal floor angles and these are about 1.5 inches high. Herewith I can see and measure (ratios) from the picture that the floor shelfs would be about 1,2 inches and the lath 0.9 inches. Hello Danny, The floor boards are 7/8" thick, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I agree it's a totally different body but it looks to me as a modification of the standard body as, for instance, the floor angle iron at the rear of the vehicle has no function (only for bolting the side board). Besides, to mine opinion the thickness of the floor has nothing to do with the fitting of the angle irons as they are on top of the floor and bolted on floor, side boards and front board. Only the bolts may look to long having the 7/8 floor. I appreciate your participation in my quest to the design of the body. I Hope indeed that others will participate to get a good picture. Here are some pictures. The last picture of the hatch is what I have at this very moment but actually you can't see it is 1.2 inches as also the floor is. Would like to see some pictures of your body. Please also remember once my questions about the measurement of the hatch (length and width) and maybe some close up pictures from the hatch levers and wooden locking pins from beneath it. How can I copy them. Would be to much asking measurements of it??? Kind regards, Danny Hello Danny, I'm a bit confused. The picture you show is a totally different body? and possibly would be different to take the weight of the gun, Most of the wood on the body is 7/8, so i would presume the floor to be the same. Maybe other mw owners reading this will check there's. But if the floor in mine were to thin, the angle iron inside the body wouldn't fit or would leave a gap and it all fit correctly, or it seems to. The angle iron inside my body is only about 1" Can you put some more pictures of your body on,showing the inside and outside of the body and the tail board and one showing the 1.2 inches, just to make sure i am measureing the same thing? regards john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 That looks very very good! No comments about that. Looks original to me from A to Z so to speak! It will help me to restore my body regarding the details of yours. Thank you for that! Indead it looks like my floor is younger. Maybe that's why the hatch is not complete. In that case my body must have had a rebuilt. Therefore I would not doubt your floor. Looking to the details I can not discover any strange structural adjustments at my body concerning the floor thickness. However, our bodies are looking the very same I think. It's just the completeness of the hatch I would like to finish. May I wait for the sizes of the hatch, levers and wooden lockings and plate beneath it (take your time)? I would be very thankful for that! Wishing you a good end of this year, Danny Here you go danny, [ATTACH=CONFIG]70939[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70944[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70945[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70946[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70940[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70941[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70942[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]70943[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I just checked mine , it is also about 3cm thick , maybe even 3,2 cm , difficult to measure without taking hatch out , but then i have to unload it. notised also that the bolts for mounting the cab frame to the body are much too long , but who carred the trucks had to go out from the factory quick in 1939. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins kpt. Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 nice body details, thanks John! If sucessfully finish my Tilly(?), go to the restoration my chassis Bedford "fly screen", thanks again(!), I have cca 30-40% orig. wood parts, but floor missing, I have two Bedford, but I'm still learning regards Tom Higgins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Thank you Maurice, this takes away my doubts and I will leave it as it is! Back to my beer and party, champagne is waiting! Wish you good ending of the year and best wishes for 2013! Danny I just checked mine , it is also about 3cm thick , maybe even 3,2 cm , difficult to measure without taking hatch out , but then i have to unload it.notised also that the bolts for mounting the cab frame to the body are much too long , but who carred the trucks had to go out from the factory quick in 1939. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 (edited) Interesting to read about the differences! Based on British specifications, the Canadian military authorities supplied designs to manufacturers as a guide for body production. One constructional drawing specifies "floor of 1-1/2" softwood or 1-1/4" hardwood" and vertical panels in 3/4" softwood. I guess the type and sizes of wood available at the time of production were of influence as well. H. Edited January 1, 2013 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 First of all, best wishes for 2013! Let's hope for more discoveries on British WWII vehicles. Is it possible to share this drawing with us? Danny Interesting to read about the differences! Based on British specifications, the Canadian military authorities supplied designs to manufacturers as a guide for body production. One constructional drawing specifies "floor of 1-1/2" softwood or 1-1/4" hardwood" and vertical panels in 3/4" softwood. I guess the type and sizes of wood available at the time of production were of influence as well. H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifficer Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Is this structure normal? I understand that the WOT2H shared the same GS back with the MW (it was made by Bedford) but mine has a large hatch in the floor to get to the top of the rear axle/diff. I'm not with it at the moment but from memory it looks bigger than the gaps you've got there. I may be going barmy though. Hi Lauren and All Happy New Year!! In the last couple of years friends & myself have rebuilt a WOT2, A Morris 15 cwt compressor truck & are currently working to finish another WOT2. We also worked some years ago on Jim Baxter of IMPS fame's WOT2, this had a Bedford body it became appearent as we restored further WOT's, Morris etc the bodies varied in quite significant ways. the Bedford body never looked just right as the wheel arches didn't center with the wheels. all these bodies had the floor trap fitted but slightly different diamentions, this might just be various makers hiccups. Regards Robin Artifficer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hi Lauren and AllHappy New Year!! In the last couple of years friends & myself have rebuilt a WOT2, A Morris 15 cwt compressor truck & are currently working to finish another WOT2. We also worked some years ago on Jim Baxter of IMPS fame's WOT2, this had a Bedford body it became appearent as we restored further WOT's, Morris etc the bodies varied in quite significant ways. the Bedford body never looked just right as the wheel arches didn't center with the wheels. all these bodies had the floor trap fitted but slightly different diamentions, this might just be various makers hiccups. Regards Robin Artifficer Wow, I've seen photo's of Jim Baxter's WOT2 on MLU, and it is magnificent. Thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifficer Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Wow, I've seen photo's of Jim Baxter's WOT2 on MLU, and it is magnificent. Thanks for the info Hi Lauren Take a look at Andy Neal's of IMPS Fordson WOT2 Canvas Office Body rebuild, it featured in Classic Military Vehicle some time ago. It's a "from the ground" rebuild that took many years and has won several awards. A first class job but I'm biased as I did some welding on it!! Regards Robin (Artifficer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty2 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Hello Danny, I think all the bolts your asking about are all 5/16 UNC coach bolts, all with square nuts 5/8 AF. The coach bolt head will vary in size, i have a box of some and the heads are all different sizes and they are not perfectly round either. So i don't think it makes to much difference. I think the tapered shims are screwed from underneath. regards John John , a british vehicle with UNC or UNF bolts, in that time do not excised. It has to be BSW or BSF Peter Hommes http://www.milmarket.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Based on British specifications, the Canadian military authorities supplied designs to manufacturers as a guide for body production. One constructional drawing specifies "floor of 1-1/2" softwood or 1-1/4" hardwood" and vertical panels in 3/4" softwood. I guess the type and sizes of wood available at the time of production were of influence as well. The above specs are off a drawing for 60-cwt bodies. I have now came across the following drawing for the Canadian 2H1 15-cwt body as fitted to CMP trucks. The construction of these bodies were based on the British design. Note the thicknesses of the boards and the types of wood used in the construction of these bodies. I notice many restorers today use tropical hardwood for body construction. This forum has a thread (can't find it right now) on the subject of a manual for wood types used by the British Army, which would help in the selection of the proper soft and hard woods for restoration. Also see Mike Kelly's website with British 15-cwt body drawings, which has been cached on the Internet Archive - see http://web.archive.org/web/20091027102342/http://www.geocities.com/vk3cz/GSBody.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I notice many restorers today use tropical hardwood for body construction. This forum has a thread (can't find it right now) on the subject of a manual for wood types used by the British Army, which would help in the selection of the proper soft and hard woods for restoration. Ah yes, here it is: Timber for old MV's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny P Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Hello Danny, I have parts of another body in my workshop, i measured the floor boards and they are the same as yours. I don't think either truck is wrong but they were never built the same. I did measure the hatch but forgot the piece of paper with the measurements on. I'm sure it was 39" long, but it may have been 15 or 19 wide, will double check tomorrow. Regards John Hello John, Could you please check the width of the hatch for me; you mentioned 15" or 19"? Thanks mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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