question BATUS the early days, use of Canadian Trucks

[robin craig]

While on a wild goose chase tonight I stumbled over documentary evidence of the use of Deuce and a half trucks as issued to the Canadian Forces by BATUS.

 

Here is the link, showing 22 FL 30 as a deuce. It is part way down the page. In another far flung corner of the web I also found a photo of another one bearing 22 FL 50.

 

http://fearnaught3.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ra1&action=print&thread=739

 

Below it are some more pictures of them in use.

 

Can anyone comment on the registration number and or the trucks used.

 

Thanks

 

R

Edited December 4, 2012 by robin craig

[m109a3uk]

The old M211 versions Nice.

[robin craig]

Dear M109a3uk or Tony,

 

you are forgiven for that identification but actually they are the M135 Canadian, there is a difference, but congratulations for chiming in on the thread!

 

 

Robin

[m109a3uk]

Forgiveness accepted! still look like M211's though:kiss: Are the M35 ones named differently when used in Canada? What about the later 9 series ones?

[robin craig]

Tony,

 

Although I live out here now, I do not claim to be any sort of expert on the M series trucks, likely because they really don't hold any interest for me, until now.

 

Basically the M 135 CDN as used at BATUS is a hard top cab with single wheels on the rear axles. Apparently the American versions were soft tops and had dual rear wheels on each axle. It is what the old sweats call a deuce and a half or in better terms a 2 1/2 ton capacity truck.

 

There was a 5 ton version that did have dual rear wheels on each axle in Canadian service but from what I gather unlike the M 135 CDN which were purpose made for Canada they were off the shelf purchases from US made stocks or manufacture.

 

The single rear wheels was apparently a Canadian thing based on the theory of rolling resistance off road. It was carried over into the replacement vehicle called the MLVW in Canadian service that is now also being withdrawn and cut up for scrap rather than being released as being far too dangerous for us civvies to own or operate.

 

The MLVW fleet was a licence build by Bombardier in Quebec based on a US design with minor tweaks for Canada. That build was a political decision to give industrial benefit to Canada and was funded with large gobs of cash to set up the MLVW production line and cost the tax payer for per unit produced than if they had been made in the US.

 

The M series truck nomenclature is further confused as the same M 135 was used over again in the MLVW fleet.

 

Don't ask me the pedigree of the 800 or 900 series numbered trucks, it confuses the heck out of me. There is some generational changes and re powers and up grades that have gone on. Basicaly it is an old design that has been flogged around for years with many super dooper improvements that have done nothing for sound insulation in the cab or creature comfort of the driver until some of the last versions.

 

We have an M818 at work as a tractor unit for a float trailer and it is a noisy pig that was once regarded as being a great vehicle and was flavour of the week until the said person making that comment had to drive across a large chunk of Canada for two solid days in a Bedford MJ and saw the difference of the ride.

 

There have been many vehicles produced over the years that appear to be identical in US and Canadian service but upon closer examination prove to have many modifictaions peculiar to Canadian usage. The suffix CDN to indicate Canadian version is how they are marked on data plates upon inspection.

 

The REO or whistler that is so much loved is a version of that in some form.

 

While I enjoy military vehicles, the M series will never hold a candle to my interest in the Bedford RL and MK and MJ and Leyland Daf and Daf and other British trucks hold for me.

 

This link to wikipedia gives you an insight into the multiple use of the same darn numbers. You will note that a 2 1/2 ton truck is listed as being an M35 and an M 135 with a different G number in brackets afterwards. Like a contract number thingy.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._military_vehicles_by_model_number

 

There seems to be a better generational breakdown of the M35 and M 135 here

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M35_2%C2%BD_ton_cargo_truck

 

I am sure someone will be along soon to give you more proper info and pedigree and correct the inaccuracies I have spread.

 

It would seem by the posts so far that you and I are having a private conversation here Tony!

 

 

regards

 

Robin

Edited December 11, 2012 by robin craig

[m109a3uk]

Strange no one has anything to say. There seem to be a few in the know or who been out on the ranges I would have thought someone would have seen them or known of them!!

[robin craig]

And welcome back to the Tony and Robin chat thread!

 

Yes Tony, there would seem to be a lack of members from the early seventies who might have been at BATUS.

 

I am doing more looking and have actually found one of the trucks as of 2007. I'm attempting to get a hold of the owner and see if Santa can put a small deposit on it.

 

For me to have a Canadian made truck but in British markings with pukka provenance would be grand because it would be such a talking point. I like the exception to the rule.

 

Robin

[m109a3uk]

"Chat on"

I have always had a hankering for a early duece not sure why just think they look right! might have been to seeing one ram all the police cars in the first Rambo film:D be nice to have a Multi fuel converted one!

one day eh?

"chat off"

[RecyMech]

Quote;- "Strange no one has anything to say. There seem to be a few in the know or who been out on the ranges I would have thought someone would have seen them or known of them!!"

 

I was at Batus in 1974 & yes we used Deuce & a Halfs. But what more is there to say about them ?

Seeing a few of these was not exactly the most exciting thing that happened in the course of a month long live firing exercise. For what its worth I seem to recall they had novelty automatic gearboxes of some sort though.

 

H

[robin craig]

Howard,

 

Thanks for the input and memories.

 

Yes, for you at that time they were as you say "just a deuce and a half".

 

For others the use of non standard or unusual vehicles is interesting.

 

The other point is that they have not been mentioned and that bears noting and documenting, otherwise the history is lost.

 

Do you have any pictures of them by and chance?

 

Do you have any idea how they were given Brit registration numbers? Were they robbed from other trucks and it was a paperwork smokescreen?

 

Robin

[RecyMech]

Sadly no further info other than memories of seeing them & thinking 'oh yeah look' yank motors.....how novel.

It did not even cross my mind at the age of 20 that they were Canadian not American.

 

As a recy mech I was more involved in keeping my Cent ARV limping along with all its woes & troubles. Rev govenors not working so no engine braking, knackered gearbox which was eventually swapped for a target gun tank box, consistantly catching fire on start up .........

 

The MT Sections had the Deuce & we only really saw it when they delivered a ration/water re-plen or collected a squadron of dirty squaddies to take us on a two hour drive to the showers.

 

Which, as anyone who has been out there will testify is totally pointless. The dust on the journey back means you climb out of the truck just as dirty as when you got in.

 

I had a quick look & a poke around in the cab of one out of curiosity, spoke to a driver about the 'funny' gearbox & thats pretty much all. It seems quite natural they should have had Brit plates, can't say I really noticed that point at the time though.

 

H

[robin craig]

Howard,

 

When you consider the few number of people who carried cameras while in the army, as the cold war was on and it was frowned upon plus the fact space for kit was limited and getting a fragile camera destroyed it is not surprising that there are few pictures around, let alone finding some that have been transferred from real film to digital after nearly 40 years.

 

BATUS has always been a place of anomalies and the non regulation practices. Witness the CVRT Spartan at my work with add on roof armour and the VISMOD OPFOR vehicles.

 

This is the interest for me.

 

R

[robin craig]

I received the following info on another forum from a gent by the name of Chris Grove:-

 

"I was a safety officer at BATUS for the very first two battle groups. The M135s we were using then indeed had UK type number plates (hand sprayed if I remember rightly) and they were still in OD or whatever the Canadians were using at the time. We understood that they had come from the Canadian Armed Forces.

 

We happily drove right hand drive Landrovers around the local (and not so local) roads which caused children idly looking out of the back windows of cars to do a double take when they realised the steering wheel was on the wrong side, but later we were ticked off when it was explained that those vehicles were only supposed to be used on the ranges.

 

The other excitement occurred at the end of, I think, the second battle run, when virtually all of the armoured squadron managed to bog their Chieftains in a slough near the final objective. One of the only two British Centurion ARVs in the western hemisphere went to the rescue, and got bogged too. The one remaining ARV kept well back out of the mud and managed to rescue its mate, whereupon they eventually managed to drag the tanks out too."

 

So, it would seem that it took a few seasons before they got their paint job.

 

R