Landrovers....In your opinion

[nz2]

Series 1 (86" soft top) is the vehicle for me. Still have mine after forty years. It's been used off road in the bush and mud, and even with the original motor performed well under some real trying conditions. The only problem that regularly occurred was the problems of ruining wheel bearings on an annual basis. That was a factor of the clay based mud that worked in through the seals. Mud was all part of the fun and excitement. On the road under powered, then when the original Rover motor died, due to mud inhalation a transplant with a Holden 6 cylinder bought on a new lease of life.

The Holden motor ( Australian GM) was a common repower in the 1970's.

If only Land Rover had taken that line as a factory standard at the time, I feel they would have retained their market against the Land Cruiser and Nissan Patrol.

 

My series one now had now double the horsepower and still survived trips out into the bush with busting the drive train. The 2a model with a larger Holden 202 cubic inch block had the habit of chewing up gearboxes and diffs.

For me the increased power was a great gain in towing a boat or trailer.

 

As family commitments grew the Landie quietly sat in the yard, then with a move in location it was back in action again, My boys then learnt their off road skills in that vehicle, tearing about the property here in the mud, sliding through corners and having competitions as to who can do the longest rooster tails , slinging mud out the back. Then the eldest decided to replace the clutch plate, so stripped it down , and I'm still waiting for it to be finished. That's a wait of so far 12 years.

I guess one day it will again be mobile, in the mean time I have acquired a military ex NZ army 80' series 1 to restore.

 

There are a couple of other model Landie's that attract me to collect, one being a forward control but very hard to find in this country, and the other is the Australian 6 wheel drive Perentie version powered by an Isuzu 3.9-litre four-cylinder engine. There was a chap with one in the region, but haven't seen it about now for a while.

In the mean time I will just keep looking about for spare parts for those I have.

Doug :blush:

[Rangie]

Well, as can be seen from my signature, I'm a bit of a fan...... Landies or Rangies

 

I have been running Series Land Rovers since the 90s on a daily basis.

For me its the brutal utilitarianism of the beasts.

They are not poser machines, I can throw all my tools and gear in the back, I don't care if it has/gets the odd scratch, no electronics, no vacuum controls, no hydraulics, easy to repair, cheap spares, cheap insurance, cheap tax and with a couple of minor modifications easily modernised. Minimal interior, no window mechanisms to go wrong, no central locking, no power steering, no door trims to rot the door frames and no insulation to rot adjacent panels.

 

My biggest bugbear with the Series range is the 2.0 and 2.25 Diesels, unburstable but oh so painfully pithless! I suffered a 2.25D for 4 years in one truck and 10 years in another. My record was 13mph in 2nd with a loaded ifor trailer over a local steep hill An engine repower and an overdrive (or diffs for a non-towing machine) is all thats required to keep up with modern traffic. An alternator and halogens/sealed beams in place of a dynamo/prefocussed lamps for a 2/2A as well.....

 

I've done the 110 thing, great trucks, but for me a nicely turned-out Series on parabolics are every bit as good with more character....

 

I do love a nicely tuned 2.25P or V8, my ambulance returns 23mpg on a run!

 

Yet Land Rovers are so ingrained in my skin they may as well be tatoo-ed. I've done the mad (7.4 chevy suburban) and the racer (E30 325i Sport), yet there has always been a down-at-heel Landie or Rangie sitting there for the gritty realism :laugh:

 

Rough List Landies past:

'72 S3 109 Diesel 2.25 Dropside Pickup (breakdown) 1997-2004

'60 S2 88 V8 Hardtop 1999-2000

'77 S3 88 2.25P Station Wagon 2002-2006

'72 109 Diesel 2.25 Hardtop (1st incarnation, faithfull servant) 1998-2009

'87 110 2.5 N/A Hardtop 2008-2009

'93 110 200tdi CSW 2009-2010

'77 109 Safari Station Wagon 2.6 Petrol (beautiful beast, joy to own!) 2010-2011

'72 109 2.25P Ambulance 2010-onwards

'72 109 ex-2.25D Hardtop (2nd incarnation, rebuilt on Galv Chassis and Nissan LD28 Diesel) 2011-onwards

 

Rough List Rangies Past:

'80 2-door V8 (petrol drinking rough monster) 2002-2006

'83 4-door ex-V8 with Mazda 3.5TD and all the trimmings (250,000 miles hybrid I built, still have it tucked away) 2006-2010

'93 4-door Vogue Tdi (bought for engine and ran out MOT) 2009

'88 4-door Vogue SE V8 LPG (bought for spares and ran MOT out) 2010

'88 4-door Vogue EFi Mazda 3.5TD 2009-2011

'87 4-door ex-V8 Efi, (now Isuzu 2.8 4JB1T at 240,000 miles and counting) 2012-onwards

 

And this does not include all the other non-Land Rover but still Rover-related nonsense:

'91 Maestro 1.3P 1997-2003

'93 Maestro 2.0D 2006

'93 Montego 2002-2008

'70 Rover 2000TC 2006-onwards

 

This also excludes all the other oddballs I have had pleasure in owning, I'm sure I've forgotten a few :nut:

 

Long and short of it, when I have a Landie, I'mm happy, when I don't, I just pine for one.......:embarrassed:

They're in my blood and under my skin.........

 

Yours, awating sectioning,

Alec.

[nptimber]

My granddad looked round my fathers first landrover a early series 2 softtop and said it was a poor tractor a poor car and a poor van not a bad discription really ,but after all these years i still drive a landrover and have half a dozen others for spares or future restoration projects that will probably never be done .

[robin craig]

I tend to agree with Richard for the same reasons.

 

The 2A had no fluff fluff padding, no plastic grille, good milspec chassis goop externally and the over riders om the front bumper.

 

My early fascination as a kid was with the Matador. As an adult my love for military vehicles started with the military Land Rover. Very, I say again, very, few Land Rovers meant for civvy street interest me one iota. Driving past the barracks at Uckfield on the bus on the way to school gave me daily glimpse of them.

 

I love honest built for a job working vehicles. The military Land Rover for me was the basic load carrier, people mover, cross country bog simple fixed with a Swiss army penknife and some binder twine and some wire vehicle.

 

I will admit that we had a series one as a child that did just that. Off down to the lake with tools, off to Ardingly for some tarmac. Loaded with fish eggs in a crate from the railway station. Through the snow in the winter, shooting brake for dad and friends.

 

The Land Rover was so widely used it was part of our daily life. Sure it was kind of good at everything but not a star at doing anything or put another way "neither fresh fish fair fowl or game". Sure it was comfortable but it felt basic and simple and without pretentions. Sure it would never set a land speed record but they just chug away and get there in the end.

 

I think it was Tom Barton (oft quoted Land Rover engineer) who said that "the longevity of the Land Rover is directly indexed to the discomfort felt by the driver". I know that the British Army at BATUS found that out the hard way when squaddies swapped the leaf sprung series trucks for the coil sprung Land Rover 90 and 110 and 127, and don't call them Defenders 'cos at that time they were not called that, even that fact is fast being forgotten.

 

The softer ride of the coil sprung vehicles were rolled after being driven too fast for the conditions and then the lack of strength in the top of the then galvanised windscreen and the lack of the twin roll bar behind the driver killed and injured many soldiers.

 

Yes, while the 90 looks sexier if that is possible, and the 127 is my fave of that era anyway, it is the series 2A 109 soft top on bar grips that is my mental image of what is THE Land Rover.

 

Robin

[rambo1969]

I remember watching an interview with ranalph finnes, he summed it up quite nicely when asked what vehcile he would always take of roading, his relpy?

 

"always, absolutley a land rover".

 

Marmite..............

[Edd]

We have 4 Landrovers at the moment, 2a Lightweight, 1983 110, 1960 series 2 and 1961 series 2 prototype. The series 2's are all under restoration/waiting at the moment and the 110 is the workhorse. The 110 often has little things go wrong - electrics etc... However not once has it ever let us down. Including doing a few stunts that it's not designed for. That is what makes me keep going back to them. Little bits will go wrong but the big stuff lasts. That and the fact it is still one of the few things that can tow 3.5 tons legally and go across a muddy field. Also parts are incredibly cheap and easy to get.

 

Ed

[nz2]

For me its the brutal utilitarianism of the beasts.

Minimal interior, no window mechanisms to go wrong, no central locking, no power steering, no door trims to rot the door frames and no insulation to rot adjacent panels.

Alec.

 

So correct. It is the true basics of the vehicle that gave it life. No frills and when it comes to cleaning mud out or similar, simply squirt the hose right through the interior! Latter model Landies became too soft and designed for not hard rural life.

Doug

[ferret1958uk]

The worst Land Rover of all time has to be the Suzuki SJ!

 

I am not kidding: Lift the bonnet on one (if any are left in the world) and they will say built under license by Land Rover. That said, the ones before Land Rover helped out were far worse. They fell over and killed people, unfortunately not just the occupants.

 

After that it has to be the Series 3 or the Range Rover. I know Land Rover had to break into the use of plastics and vinyls, but until they did they were great as the tool they were designed to be. Plastics in cars should be banned. Recycling them would be far easier and safer then.

[RattlesnakeBob]

The worst Land Rover of all time has to be the Suzuki SJ!

 

 

 

 

heheh.........don't altogether agree though ....

... I found Suzuki SJs and the earlier model , the LJ 80 to be cracking little vehicles and almost bombproof off road.....

..the falling over thing I don't agree with at all as absolutely any 4x4 can be tipped over ... I reckon the problem was more to do with younger (perhaps) and /or inexperienced drivers expecting them to corner like a little normal road going car would ..........

Incidentally I read somewhere a few years ago that there was a concerning number of accidents with Defender / 90 coil springers being tipped over when they first came into Military service as they didn't 'behave' as ordinary leaf sprung Landrovers did especially when cornering?.

....anyone ex services got any knowledge/recollection of this maybe??

I've felt for many years that 4 Wheel drives in general often carry the brunt of a lot of misconceptions and I think they (and Landrovers) come in for a lot of flak that is not due or fair...

..How many of you have heard something like

"Oh it's got a difflock...that means it's unstoppable doesn't it?".....or.....

....."go up a mountain won't they?" etc etc ........

I've lost count of the number of times I've tried (usually unsuccessfully) to explain that a difflock in an older Range Rover merely locks the centre diff and not the cross axle ones and thereby actually turns the drive train into exactly what the Series Landrovers have.....

.....and don't even start on trying to explain (especially to someone that already knows everything about 4 wheel drives and off roading:cool2: ) about ' transmission lock up/twist' due to having the truck in full time 4 wheel drive on the road........

Recently I took a Series Landrover for an MOT at a garage (that shall remain nameless) and the admittedly young tester fella said " I can't put it on the rolling brake tester cos it's a 4 wheel drive and it'll wreck it" :-D

[Richard Farrant]

 

I am not kidding: Lift the bonnet on one (if any are left in the world) and they will say built under license by Land Rover. .

 

 

Are you sure about that? As far as I was aware, Santana licence built the SJ in Spain after they ended their agreement with Land Rover. Subsequent Santana's looked like Land Rovers but were not.

 

I might be wrong on this point and will be interested to hear more.

[paulob1]

heheh.........don't altogether agree though ....

... I found Suzuki SJs and the earlier model , the LJ 80 to be cracking little vehicles and almost bombproof off road.....

..the falling over thing I don't agree with at all as absolutely any 4x4 can be tipped over ... I reckon the problem was more to do with younger (perhaps) and /or inexperienced drivers expecting them to corner like a little normal road going car would ..........

Incidentally I read somewhere a few years ago that there was a concerning number of accidents with Defender / 90 coil springers being tipped over when they first came into Military service as they didn't 'behave' as ordinary leaf sprung Landrovers did especially when cornering?.

....anyone ex services got any knowledge/recollection of this maybe??

I've felt for many years that 4 Wheel drives in general often carry the brunt of a lot of misconceptions and I think they (and Landrovers) come in for a lot of flak that is not due or fair...

..How many of you have heard something like

"Oh it's got a difflock...that means it's unstoppable doesn't it?".....or.....

....."go up a mountain won't they?" etc etc ........

I've lost count of the number of times I've tried (usually unsuccessfully) to explain that a difflock in an older Range Rover merely locks the centre diff and not the cross axle ones and thereby actually turns the drive train into exactly what the Series Landrovers have.....

.....and don't even start on trying to explain (especially to someone that already knows everything about 4 wheel drives and off roading:cool2: ) about ' transmission lock up/twist' due to having the truck in full time 4 wheel drive on the road........

Recently I took a Series Landrover for an MOT at a garage (that shall remain nameless) and the admittedly young tester fella said " I can't put it on the rolling brake tester cos it's a 4 wheel drive and it'll wreck it" :-D

 

its the same as people think about a stalwart going anywhere, they are good off road of that there is no doubt but not anywhere, but also to be fair, anywhere is mostly where people would not really go and the reality of off roading is that you will always get stuck at some stage and the only safe solution is another similar vehicle nearby, a winch may help some of the time, but the more weight you add the more likely you are to bog down, so its all relative...

 

my stalwart has permanent 6x6 diff locks the lot, and i know where it will and where it wont go...and some of the wont gos are not that difficlut just a bit of deep boggy ground and we are stuck...a suzuki with no weight balloon tyres will virtually float on the top of the bog and leave me behind...they do topple over easily just as do landrovers given the right incentive...I certainly know how to do the latter...

[RattlesnakeBob]

my stalwart has permanent 6x6 diff locks the lot, and i know where it will and where it wont go...and some of the wont gos are not that difficlut just a bit of deep boggy ground and we are stuck...a suzuki with no weight balloon tyres will virtually float on the top of the bog and leave me behind...they do topple over easily just as do landrovers given the right incentive...I certainly know how to do the latter...

 

.....Agree totally........ A wise old fella that had worked in the woods and on the land i general said to me many years ago ........

." don't pay too much attention to someone that says they've never got their vehicle stuck off road......it just means they haven't tried to do very much with it rather than they're actually any good at driving it "....

A gadget that made me smile when it started appearing on 4 wheel drives especially Japanese ones was the 'inclinometer'..

apparently (if you listened to those in the know) ....it was a device to stop you tipping the truck over.....

.......like...yeah :cool2:

[Jolly Jeeper]

Are you sure about that? As far as I was aware, Santana licence built the SJ in Spain after they ended their agreement with Land Rover. Subsequent Santana's looked like Land Rovers but were not.

 

I might be wrong on this point and will be interested to hear more.

 

 

 

You're right on both points - Santana licence-built stuff - but the badge under the bonnet does say something like 'Land Rover Santana, SA'...

Edited September 17, 2012 by Jolly Jeeper

[Jolly Jeeper]

I'm afraid that I cannot contribute anything from personal experience on Land Rover reliability. My own 90 was built as recently as 1993, so it is too soon to say what reliability is going to be like long term.

 

John.

 

 

Classic!

[Jolly Jeeper]

crikey.......:shocked:

....it must have been one of the pre-production prototypes models then because as far as I know?...... Landrover never sold them officially.........and there were only a few ??? only 1 or possibly 2 I think???...made with the wheel in the centre......

.......and if you still had it???

Well it'd be 'name yer price time' in some sorta order cos as far as I know, there's no known survivor?

 

 

 

The centre-steer prototype used a Jeep chassis, axles and wheels but a Rover engine and handmade body - it was cut up in the factory. From April 1948 onwards Land Rovers were available as Left or Right hand drive.

[Jolly Jeeper]

What I do find funny is the rose tinted glasses that many land rover owners have regarding their preferred vehicle.

 

I've just got myself an RB44 with all its alleged faults, that everyone seems to very quick to criticise, however the similar failings of land rovers (crap brakes, funky suspension, rust in front of your eyes and poor performance) seem to be revered by the land rover fraternity.

 

p.s the rb44 is proving to be a far more capable and useful tool than any landy I've come across;)

 

I agree, just can't understand the blind loyalty that makes many Land Rover people think that there's nothing else...

[Jolly Jeeper]

Just replied with quotes from others' posts so thought I'd add that I have a few civvy Land Rovers at the moment; '53 80in, '57 88in Series One, '67 109in Series IIA, '73 88in Series III, a Disco 1 van... I had a civvy '49 80in and I've had a few military ones, a Series IIA Lightweight, a Series III Lightweight, a Series III 109in.

 

But I've also had a Scammell 6x6, a Fiat Panda 4x4, several Mahindra Jeeps (still got them), a Hotchkiss M201, a Nissan Terrano van, a Ford Ranger pick-up... Oh and a couple of Jeep projects on the go. I like 4x4s! They all have pros and cons and are better suited to some jobs than others. All I know for sure is that if you don't look after any of them, they fail.

[Jolly Jeeper]

PS - Loads of early Land Rover ('48-58) history and such here - http://www.lrsoc.com/forum/index.php