question Land Rover 2.5NA diesel cam bearings Help Please!

[robin craig]

We have ordered parts twice for this rebuild job and received the same part number of unfinished bearing sets twice, in their current state they are about .015" too big They will be awkward to turn down.

 

Does anyone know if they only come unfinished?

 

We have no capability to line hone the block with them installed, they would have to be mounted into a jig and put in a lathe and pressed out again and then installed to the block, a whole rigamarole we do not want to do.

 

Any suggestions please?

 

R

[fesm_ndt]

the rebuild i saw showed that these are typically line bored for best fit...... I remember it as thought thats a pain

 

but i got some manuals here I'll see if I have any different methods

[fesm_ndt]

Ok this raises an interesting question, metric or imperial :wow:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]67672[/ATTACH]

still digging

[fesm_ndt]

there is a piccie of a big reamer.... but where to get from as i would like to do also

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]67673[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]67674[/ATTACH]

[ruxy]

We have ordered parts twice for this rebuild job and received the same part number of unfinished bearing sets twice, in their current state they are about .015" too big They will be awkward to turn down.

 

Does anyone know if they only come unfinished?

 

We have no capability to line hone the block with them installed, they would have to be mounted into a jig and put in a lathe and pressed out again and then installed to the block, a whole rigamarole we do not want to do.

 

Any suggestions please?

 

R

 

 

How are you ordering, a set of 4 is 3qty the same & one different dims.

 

http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/2166/90519054-5-CAMSHAFT-BEARING-SET.html?search=90519054&page=1

 

===

 

Only difference with a metric & a imperial cam (other than genuine / non-genuine is price) - it is the thread to secure the sprocket. There is a conversion kit

[ruxy]

With the correct bearings , you don't need the big reamer , in fact - you will probably wreck the new bearings. You use an old cam (unless you intend to give loads of £ to V.L. Churchill) & your loaf - NOT the books , there is hardly any reaming allowance in any case. You fit the bearings using a length of thread-bar , washers , plates - whatever , using a old cam to swage any mis-alignment of the white-metal. Any reaming - Grind a groove down the faces of the old cam-shaft.

[robin craig]

Gents,

 

Thank you so very much for the info so far.

 

Let me explain the situation more clearly.

 

I am causing the engine to be rebuilt at a different location 2 hours drive away. I am not the re-builder.

 

The re-builder has refused to get involved with the vaguaries of Trans-Atlantic parts ordering and the b/s involved which is large.

 

I will pass the info on to him and try a different supplier in the morning.

 

He is about fit to be tied at the moment and is threatening to throw the job out of the shop.

 

At the other end management is champing at the bit to have the truck running.

 

Any other comments gratefully accepted.

 

R

[robin craig]

So if I understand Mike's post there are two camshaft styles, one metric one imperial, anyone know the sizes?

 

R

[DMC 7RU]

Extracts from Parts Catalogue and Workshop Manual are for Series 3 2.25 Diesel (chain driven cam).

 

 

Honing method may be the same although Land Rover Factory Manual says "This work should only be entrusted to line boring specialists"

 

Part No for camshaft 2.5 N/A Diesel is ETC7128

together with Qty 3 90519055 Bearing and Qty 1 536577 Bearing (upto Eng No12J43824C) or ETC8442 (From Eng No 12J43825C)

[ruxy]

So if I understand Mike's post there are two camshaft styles, one metric one imperial, anyone know the sizes?

 

R

 

=========

 

The camshaft PROFILES are the SAME - IT IS THE THREAD IN THE END OF THE CAMSHAFT THAN CAN BE DIFFERENT (as previously stated). Quite a involved subject , best to restrict to your own header :-

 

Land Rover 2.5NA diesel cam bearings Help Please!

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In theory your cam is probably :-

 

http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/6083/ETC7128-4-CYLINDER-ENGINE-CAMSHAFT.html?search=erc5475&page=1

 

Now - take note of all the part number supercessions :-

 

 

S/S ETC8383

S/S ERC5475

S/S ETC8416

S/S ERR222

 

For simplicity - best not to go into this.

 

The simple fact is this :-

 

When the 5mb engines were introduced , later versions (petrol and diesel) were fitted with a metric THREAD camshaft (this was all part of the process of so called "metrication" - to the stage of what is known as a "fully metricated engine" (that it is not).

 

At this stage the camshaft was stamped with a D (diesel) and was ERC5475 (now discontinued).

 

So a person who purchased this metric camshaft (if he had a "imperial" or part metricated engine) - reason also these can be a huge difference in £ PRICE of imperial & metric "genuine" camshafts , then this person - he could not fit his sprocket securing bolt - to cater for this situation is the "Service Kit" RTC2957 kit , if you check your parts book - then this kit you will find consists of a set-bolt ETC4141 (IIRC with thread-lock applied) and a washer ETC4140 (original washer 9093 , tab-locker 9210 & original set SH606071L that was 3/8" UNF - THESE WOULD BE THROWN AWAY).

 

Land Rover would sell you (or the successors to V.L. Churchill) tools to extract the camshaft LoL , they will even tell you to buy a special reamer. Land Rover will suggest you use this - as they will tell you to buy all sorts of special insertion tools and even special tools to withdraw the camshaft !! LoL. I can tell you that to set up on a horizontal borer and clock in the set-up would be a total waste of time. I have told how it is in fact done , carefully pull in the shells using your loaf ,if you have access to a lathe - make your own stepped bushes for the threadbar,use a old worn cam oiled to check alignment + a little swaging (turning) to correct any misalignment, micrometer blue check, use a old camshaft modified to reamer. As such the shells do not have a machining allowance LoL.

Edited September 14, 2012 by ruxy
spelin

[robin craig]

Ruxy,

thanks for the info

 

old cam bearings were:-

 

qty 1 BL6952/1

 

qty 3 S9390S

 

block bore is 1.965"

 

Cam journal is 1.841"

 

Does this look normal?

 

R

[ruxy]

http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/6140/ETC8442-CAMSHAFT-BEARING.html?search=90519054&page=1

 

S/S 90519054

S/S 519054

 

1 QTY. REQUIRED.

 

Split sleeve type, spec. white metal on coppered steel backing , due to S/S the actual spec. may be slightly different , normally change to spec. / OEM then No. change.

 

1.843" ID x 1.972" OD x 0.968" long (wider front bearing , oil hole)

 

==

 

http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/2167/90519055-ENGINE-CAMSHAFT-BEARING-REAR.html?search=519055&page=1

 

S/S 519055

 

3 QTY. REQUIRED.

 

Seems , this remains on Defenders from 1987 onwards

 

Split sleeve type , -as above-

 

1.843" ID x 1.972" OD x 0.750" long

 

--------

 

Obviously the CI block is line-bored on a transfer machine , the split-sleeve construction allows very easy insertion , they are very concentric and round, the thickness is accurate and will have no deviation beyond 0.0001".

 

When fitted the inner dia. is correct. Obviously the way they are fitted (and care taken) over the 4 qty. beaings - you could get a very small misalignment, THUS TO REAM YOU ARE HARDLY REMOVING ANY WHITE METAL , probably only 0.002" at a edge of a bearing. Oil a old cam insert & turn and you can get this right , check with micrometer blue for any tight / high spot - remove with a small scraper. Try old cam for free moving (apply oil) , then do the same with a new cam.

 

NB. A "genuine" cam is linished on the edges of the lobes & journals (they do a good job but expensive) , aftermarket replacements - seen a few and they are always as sharp as a blade - so stone off or risk damage to shells.

 

If the new cam is still a bit tight (not often) , then this is where I use another old cam I have converted to a safe reamer (grooves ground journals) - de-grease to cut dry, does not need the care of the V.L. Churchill reamer and IMHO is far superior.

 

No changes 3mb to 5mb block , there could be a change to bearings etc. on later Defenders , would guestimate of age of engine + your VIN to delve into the Defender parts book that are a total PITA for "change points" and I only have the 1987 to 2001 on , Cat. in any case if your are newer.

Edited September 14, 2012 by ruxy
spelin