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Tanks found and lost


little ray

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Hi guys, its been a while since I was on here and I have had some ups and downs but we are traveling ok once again. In the last six months I have found 2 Centurions but one was sold and the other transferred to some where else that no one could have it, 2 Matilda's with one being just a hull and the other taken for scrap metal so I lost then then there was one Stuart Mk3 which had been made into a bulldozer but the owner swapped it for a non flyable plane and all seemed lost. Then on Ebay a very cut up Lee/ Grant and a Stuart came along but I let them pass so they are out there but I can not find them in time so I through about giving up when out of left field came a phone call that this guy has a Stuart for sale and he heard I wanted one, he has explained that it was made into a bulldozer after the war and needs a new diff or at least a crown wheel and pinion as the wheel is missing two teeth. Price has not been talked about yet but I was wondering were I could get a new gear set if the one in it is unrepairable and a work shop manual, can any one help with info on these items please... Little Ray

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then there was one Stuart Mk3 which had been made into a bulldozer but the owner swapped it for a non flyable plane and all seemed lost.

 

Hi Little Ray,

 

Too many clues in your post :) ...... when I was over your way in March, I met that chap with his non flyable plane and he told me about the Stuart. You have to be quick on these things and not tell too many people!

 

regards, Richard

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Hi Richard, this one is there as I can see it on Google Earth and there is more ex army stuff laying around. Next week we go to look at the thing and get the photos and work out a price as to me this is a foot in the door as any thing I have ever wanted I had to find one then more would turn up and thats what I am hoping for here so I will end up with a near complete one, well thats the idea.... Ray

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Hi Richard, this one is there as I can see it on Google Earth and there is more ex army stuff laying around. Next week we go to look at the thing and get the photos and work out a price as to me this is a foot in the door as any thing I have ever wanted I had to find one then more would turn up and thats what I am hoping for here so I will end up with a near complete one, well thats the idea.... Ray

 

Hi Ray,

Best of luck with your mission. Once you have secured it, then send the photos, otherwise someone will guess the location! I often say what a small world it is, and it is so true.

Richard

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Hi Richard, well I found a seven cylinder engine tonight and a lead on diff parts, so things are looking up now and was offered a white scout car but turned it down. One of the local car club guys told me of another Matilda that he know of so it worth a look to see if its there, the guy who has the Stuart has a spare new engine for the Matilda in his shed so I have a buyer for it as well if it comes as part of the sale... Ray

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Hi Richard, well I found a seven cylinder engine tonight and a lead on diff parts, so things are looking up now and was offered a white scout car but turned it down. One of the local car club guys told me of another Matilda that he know of so it worth a look to see if its there, the guy who has the Stuart has a spare new engine for the Matilda in his shed so I have a buyer for it as well if it comes as part of the sale... Ray

 

Good work Richard ! Looks like you are suddenly making headway in your quest.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Richard, well we have found a M3 Stuart but its sad, it has had the worst chop I have ever seen, I will try and load some photos and you will see what I mean by chop. It is for sale but I really would not pay a lot for it... Ray

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As shown in the photos this tank has had a considerable chop, and may not be worth restoration. I wish to ask however as to what state of restoration you are considering, for as an example of local adaption of a ex military vehicle, this shows the extent of what was undertaken to make a usable item. While you may be interested in a restoration of a military vehicle, consider the challenge in in post military recreations. This is still from an important era in the history of land use and needs to be maintained along side that of periods of conflict.

One aspect of such restoration is that there is no need for fine detail as a perfect finish. Welded on attachments and a lack of paint all add to the character. In a line up of restored tanks the civilian modified example shows latter use an object can be put to.

If it was a military conversion we would be scrambling to reproduce the item!

Doug :cheesy:

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Hi there, would you like some photos of the ones I have found but are now gone or have disappeared...

I am after a tank that looks like a tank be it going or not, I could get a "APC " after a ten minute phone call but its from England and the cost would be around $50K it get if off the guy and its 50Kms away from home.There is a Ferret parked up the road just 5 minutes from here that is going to be sold or moved but its not a tank, I even found a ferret in a pine tree, the tree grew from under it and is lifting it like a fork lift and was 2feet off the ground last time I was there but they wanted $9k and the rust is now eating it away... Let me know if you would like to see some photos.. Ray

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Hi Doug. you are right when you said chop, ads a new meaning to a low profile vehicle. I have been told that if you can get around 30% of the vehicle then its worth restoration or even convert it to another tank from the second WW eg. panzer 1 or 2.

From what I have found out that they were sold for 5 pound after the war then converted and resold for 50 to 100 pound and the one in the photo was a local adaption of a ex military vehicle.

(While you may be interested in a restoration of a military vehicle, consider the challenge in in post military recreations. This is still from an important era in the history of land use and needs to be maintained along side that of periods of conflict)

I want a tracked vehicle mainly a tank since I was ten years old but money or other people have stopped me from getting what I want. I have been so close that I could touch it and it was whipped away, I would even take a gate guard if I could get one but around here I could get a Mig fighter with less problems as there is two up for sale than get the tank.

I nearly had the one in the photo but it was moved inter state by a friend so I could not get it.. Ray

Tanks.jpg

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Ray,

Do you have more photos of the altered tanks, in particular of the bits added. How were these blades etc operated, as it appears some are cable operated. The blade mounts would appear to be a collection of steel heading in different angles, but I guess it was trial and error in converting such units. I gather the running costs of the original tank engine would have made these expensive dirt shifters

Doug

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The conversion of tanks to dozers and other useful mobile machinery was pretty common after the war. Over the years I have come across quite a few. My AC1 was a conversion to a heavy mobile crane. Another AC1 I have seen is a very neat dozer unit with centurian wheels and tracks, and if my memory serves me well two original gearboxes in a row connected to a Gardner diesel. The blade is operated by an overhead cable from a massive winch at the rear of the machine.

Another fellow I knew well bought six? diesel engined Stuarts and a similar number of GM engined Grants at the auction sales after the war. I remember him telling the story of how they stripped them of their upper armour and turrets before trucking them down to the farm near Camperdown. He converted at least two Stuarts for use as tractors (for towing cultivating equipment) by inverting the final drive so that the tank drove backwards. One Stuart had its Guiberson engine replaced by one of the 671 GM motors from the Grant power pack. Another had a Matilda Leyland motor - this motor survived and is in my shed. He made a great job of converting one of the Grants into a dozer which he used, amongst other jobs, to build a massive dam in a valley at Scotts Creek. The big blade still exists and is used as the front of a loading ramp! I have a photo of that Grant somewhere - but where? Will try to find it. The spare chassis's were canibalised for parts, and we climbed all over them when we were kids. In the 70's one of the spare Stuart hulls was traded to John Belfield. If I hadn't been focussed on working overseas when the fellow died the huge stack of wheels, track and other equipment might have been saved from the scrappy. I'm told the local Lions Club did OK from the cleanup. The 'goers' were sold and may still exist but quite where is anyones guess. Regards...

BB Stuart camperdown.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Guys, well the tank chasing has been slowed down over the last months as it has been to cold or wet but with the warm weather this weekend past I started to chase down another lead which did not turn up any remains as the scrap metal low life had taken the remains. On leaving this farm I was asked to check another one in the area for two Austin A40's for a local club member and they were there but fit for parts only, now on looking around the farm I made another discovery which means that the tank chasing will have to end now till later on in the coming year and I will move to another section of this forum. In a deserted shed at the back of the property I found a Ford MB Jeep in its original state minus one front wheel and a broken chassi with all the bits and spares stacked in the corner so I have very little to find and really only needs a good clean up to get the dirt and lime dust and repair to use also there was no rust in it so I asked the owner if he wanted to sell and he said maybe but he would not take under $2000 for it so I now own it. Ray

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Ray/Richard,

 

How many WWII tanks would you say are running in Australia? Seems to be a lot of potential restoration projects about which leads me to think there must be a lot in private hands?

 

Jack,

From my travels out there, I have seen two privately owned and restored Matilda II tanks, with others in museums, a number of M3 Stuarts, Grants..... It would be difficult to know, as with distance and cost getting to events, a lot of these do not travel far from home, but more than you might think, I would say. Away from WWII, there a good number of Centurions. If you want to count cut down Matildas, Grants and Stuarts, that had been converted to bush clearance and dozing, there are a fair few, but probably only of use for parts, as too much is missing or cut away.

Over to Ray............ to see what he has found on his searches ..........

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Thanks Richard, well from what I have seen first hand and around here there would be 8 or 9 Matilda's and 5 Stuart's and 4 Centurion's and there is some big collections around that people do not talk about but I am told it could number in the 20's. There is a Ferret and a Saladin parked 4 kms from where I sit. My figures do not include museums or ones in the possession of the army which they hold at Sydney Moorebank base, The Hunter Lancer unit, Puckapunyal to name just three and most of these are quite serviceable WW2 and Vietnam issue. there must still be dozens still out on farms like the one I found a few months ago and the two Bren carriers that have come up for auction in the last months. I know were there is a Bren in big bits for sale now for around $5000 but its just sitting there ... Ray

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