Mk3iain Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) I made a spur of the moment decision and bought a Snatch from Withams. What the hell its a Landrover easy or what! (Joke!) Its just arrived home and I have had a day to look around. The starters goosed and the chassis needs cleaning up and a new out rigger and the rear prop is bent, no surprises so far. For the time being I just want to get it running so I can move it around and get it cleaned and protected from further rust. My Milly is first for attention mainly an engine change from my donor to get rid of the turbo and return all to standard. Does the snatch use the same parts as the standard 110 V8, ie rear prop etc? Any info on parts would be appreciated. My future project! Donor Milly! Sadly one Milly is going to provide parts and spares to keep the other going, but it is well gone and would be scrapped otherwise. Iain Edited June 12, 2012 by Mk3iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Does anyone who has a Snatch have any info on parts? So far I need a rear prop-shaft and will no doubt need many more bits as I go. Ie windscreens, bumper etc Do they use standard 110 parts? (Not the windscreens of course!). Any help and advice appreciated. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armouredfarmer Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 every Snatch that Whitams have handled seems to have a bent prop! standard 110 one fits, Windscreens are difficult to find, check whats wrong with yours, if its a layer of dirt that can't be cleaned off it may be that the plastic and glass have separated, in which case it might be possible to remove the glass and separate the two layers completely and clean them but this is not guaranteed, some times they wont come apart completely. Most of the automotive parts are standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 every Snatch that Whitams have handled seems to have a bent prop! standard 110 one fits, Windscreens are difficult to find, check whats wrong with yours, if its a layer of dirt that can't be cleaned off it may be that the plastic and glass have separated, in which case it might be possible to remove the glass and separate the two layers completely and clean them but this is not guaranteed, some times they wont come apart completely. Most of the automotive parts are standard. Thanks for that, I hadn't thought of separating the plastic layer! I'll give it a try when the summer really comes! :goodidea: Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hi Iain, my experience has been that many of the 'standard' V8 110 parts fit the Snatch. As the previous poster has said the rear propshaft is 'standard'. Might be worth having a look at the other various bits around the rear as the reason for the bent propshaft is likely to be either the MoD (according to Withams) or Withams according to some who have been there lifting the vehicle and moving it around on a forklift. Think it was a Panhard rod I had that was also bent. along with bit of chassis and the rear cross member. There are various new or recon V8 starters that will fit on e-bay. I got an exmod one for around £50 notes. What's wrong with yours? I replaced mine while I had the gearbox out and there was obvious damage to the ring gear and wear on the starter teeth. However it had an intermittent fault that re-occured on the new one and with some help from the EMLRA forum which I discovered was down to a poor earth. The earth from your battery (12v) under the passenger seat? connects to the side of the gearbox. This might be need a clean as it seems to be common for all ex Iraq Snatches to have gearboxes covered in well set concrete (otherwise known as Iraqi mud). It was suggested to me that I ran a cable from the battery negative direct to the starter e.g a jump lead from the battery to one of the bolts securing the starter. All my problems vanished, showing that it was an earthing problem. Might be worth a shot..... There have been a few threads on the EMLRA forum (http://www.emlra.org) so might be worth joining that as well. Look forward to hearing how you get on. Cheers Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hi Iain, my experience has been that many of the 'standard' V8 110 parts fit the Snatch. As the previous poster has said the rear propshaft is 'standard'. Might be worth having a look at the other various bits around the rear as the reason for the bent propshaft is likely to be either the MoD (according to Withams) or Withams according to some who have been there lifting the vehicle and moving it around on a forklift. Think it was a Panhard rod I had that was also bent. along with bit of chassis and the rear cross member. There are various new or recon V8 starters that will fit on e-bay. I got an exmod one for around £50 notes. What's wrong with yours? I replaced mine while I had the gearbox out and there was obvious damage to the ring gear and wear on the starter teeth. However it had an intermittent fault that re-occured on the new one and with some help from the EMLRA forum which I discovered was down to a poor earth. The earth from your battery (12v) under the passenger seat? connects to the side of the gearbox. This might be need a clean as it seems to be common for all ex Iraq Snatches to have gearboxes covered in well set concrete (otherwise known as Iraqi mud). It was suggested to me that I ran a cable from the battery negative direct to the starter e.g a jump lead from the battery to one of the bolts securing the starter. All my problems vanished, showing that it was an earthing problem. Might be worth a shot..... There have been a few threads on the EMLRA forum (www.emlra.org) so might be worth joining that as well. Look forward to hearing how you get on. Cheers Julian I am sure its the starter solenoid, I rigged a cable direct to battery earth and the starter still struggled on the odd occasion that it would turn over (slowly). I have got a replacement overnight off E-bay for £60 and it turns over nicely! But still won't start, lots of bodging is evident in the ignition system so I am going to have to leave it until next week as I need to get the Milly ready for Castle Frazer this weekend. There is no other signs of damage other than a small ding in chassis in line with the damage to the prop shaft and no damage at the rear, so far..... Lots of concrete around and I can't get low range yet, but I'll get around too that and sussing out the wiring including what I assume is the aux battery and genny. Is it a hybrid 12v and 24v system as on my Chevy M1008 or are there two separate 12v systems? Cheers Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hi Iain, good luck with removing the old starter (if you haven't done so all ready). I found the top cap screw to be a real pig of a job..... A stuck hi - lo range lever is a common theme with these. On mine it was the lever mechanism mounted on top of the lt85 gearbox that was the problem, not the connection on the transfer box. I just removed the split pins on the connecting rods, undid the four bolts holding the mechanism and took it to the bench to be stripped down. If I get a chance tomorrow I'll post the exploded pic from the parts manual which shows how it all fits together. Make sure you mark the position of the lever fitted to the end of the shaft before you remove it otherwise aligning it correctly again is another unhappy job.... cheers Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Forgot to say. I haven't fiddled much with the electrics, but understand it has two separate systems. Gneral vehicle electrics and engine etc are 12V. With a separate 24V generator and circuits for radios etc. So I believe everything you will be working on is 12V......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Apologies meant to post this earlier but PC problems stopped play. Item 22 was sized on mine where it went through the housing preventing the lever moving forward or backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Apologies meant to post this earlier but PC problems stopped play. Item 22 was sized on mine where it went through the housing preventing the lever moving forward or backwards. [ATTACH=CONFIG]63120[/ATTACH] Thanks, I can get diff lock OK but not low range, so no doubt have the same problem. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) I have been looking further into the electrical charging systems. I have the original 12v alternator connected to the left (passenger) side battery that supplies the vehicle power, it is also connected to the air conditioning system (the fuses and relays are beside the battery) and it seems all the additional electronic equipment. The second alternator that must have been added during the desert "upgrade" is wired to a battery under the drivers seat. It has no other connections and supplies no users? It had been disconnected and the battery had obvious signs of extreme overheating, one terminal changed colour and battery acid spilling out. I suspect the electronic equipment had been connected to this but after the incident had been swapped to the main battery. The secondary alternator was feeding a single 12v battery and so must be 12v itself also I can see no connection between the batteries to give a 24v supply. I don't have any wiring diagrams to show how it was originally, does anyone have any information on the electrical system or the wiring diagrams for these "desertised" versions? I would have thought 24v supply would have been required for the electronics but it does not look like it! Any help appreciated! Iain Edited June 19, 2012 by Mk3iain grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Hi Iain, just been and had a look at mine and these are my conclusions. Under the passenger seat is the 12v system. This appears to also supply all the radio equipment as there are cable that run to a junction box behind the passenger seat which has various radio type cable associated with it. The 12v battery definately supplies the vehicle earth, via a cable to the side of the gearbox and the live feed to the starter via a cable which runs across the bellhousing to the starter on the drivers side. So I'm assuiming all my vehicle electrics are 12v. there are two interconnected batteries under the driver seat, which I'm assuming is the 24v system. This only has a couple of cables running from it, both of which are cut. There are larger cables running to the +ve and -ve terminals of the two batteries which runs across the outside of the 'tunnel' over the gearbox passed down through the gearbox lever cover, across the bellhousing and then runs up and along the passenger side inner wing. These then connect to the alternator/generator located on the front of the engine on the passenger side. I will post some pictures to help illustrate the above in another post below. SEnd me a pm if you want more, or the pictures in the original size quality (around 6Mb per pic) as I have compressed them down to around 300kb each to make posting on the forum easier. Stick a post on the thread if you would like some more/different pics to help figure it out. Cheers, Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) pictures as discussed, if you hover the mouse over the pictures it will tell you their title Edited June 19, 2012 by bonnie_scott xtra info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Hi Iain, just been and had a look at mine and these are my conclusions. Under the passenger seat is the 12v system. This appears to also supply all the radio equipment as there are cable that run to a junction box behind the passenger seat which has various radio type cable associated with it. The 12v battery definately supplies the vehicle earth, via a cable to the side of the gearbox and the live feed to the starter via a cable which runs across the bellhousing to the starter on the drivers side. So I'm assuiming all my vehicle electrics are 12v. there are two interconnected batteries under the driver seat, which I'm assuming is the 24v system. This only has a couple of cables running from it, both of which are cut. There are larger cables running to the +ve and -ve terminals of the two batteries which runs across the outside of the 'tunnel' over the gearbox passed down through the gearbox lever cover, across the bellhousing and then runs up and along the passenger side inner wing. These then connect to the alternator/generator located on the front of the engine on the passenger side. I will post some pictures to help illustrate the above in another post below. SEnd me a pm if you want more, or the pictures in the original size quality (around 6Mb per pic) as I have compressed them down to around 300kb each to make posting on the forum easier. Stick a post on the thread if you would like some more/different pics to help figure it out. Cheers, Julian Thanks Julian That agrees with what I found except I only had one battery under the drivers seat, it had been disconnected and was loose so there could well have been two originally. It seems most of the equipment was run from the 12v side but some also from the 24v, it would be handy to get hold of some wiring diagrams, no doubt the kit is out of bounds but the basic power layout should be from the basic vehicle upgrade. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) pictures as discussed, if you hover the mouse over the pictures it will tell you their title [ATTACH=CONFIG]63255[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63256[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63257[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63254[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]63258[/ATTACH] Yes it makes sense now. There must have been some sort of accident that required a battery to be removed from under my drivers seat, with the damage to the one left they may have been shorted and started cooking off. My ignition is standard non screened, strange when they were all going to carry radios etc. I see you have Odyssey batteries, they are very good, I have managed to recover the main battery using a pulse charger (Opimate 6) but of course the other one is goosed. I'm not sure what to do with all the extra wiring, I'll probably rip out what is no longer used and take it from there. I wonder if the 24v alternator could run a BV :cool2: Cheers Iain Edited June 19, 2012 by Mk3iain spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Hmmm, I don't know about a boiling vessel, but I was going to look at the various 24v bits and pieces used by truckers to make life on the road more comfortable. So while I don't intend a camper conversion I was thinking I could make it more comfy for long weekends traveling around the highlands :-D But that's to come as I haven't actually checked the batteries out to see if they're OK and that the charging system is working. As for the rest I intend to leave the framework that separates the cab from the rear but I may just document and remove the cabling and store in case I fancy ever trying to replicate some form of military radio system. However I suspect that it had Bowman fitted. I number that passed through Witham's had stickers/notices saying they had been checked for the removal of Bowman, and as I understand it the Army started to fit Bowman to front line units in 2003 and as mine (and I suspect most of the others released) were overhauled and upgraded to 'Desert Spec' in 2005 I would have though that they would have had Bowman fitted. Cheers, Julian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 I think you may stand a chance of recovering those batteries with a pulse charging battery conditioner. I recovered one of mine but I am not sure the batteries were the right rating, they are 40ah and look a bit smaller than yours. Those Odysseys are expensive but good and are worth the investment in a conditioner (Optimate 6?). A bit on the small side but still turns it over! I've started digging in and taking bits off prior to giving it a good clean out but I am trying hard not to get too involved in it yet as I want to concentrate on my Militant (I have just fitted a BV to improve the comfort level, my truck my rules!). Some more pics Lots of redundant cables and stuff to remove and store ! The engine was rebuilt in 2005. according to the plate, runs a bit rough but I feel the carbs need a service the engine itself is nice and quiet! Lots to do and its hard not to fiddle. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie_scott Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Your interior looks very similar to mine, but I'm not sure that a good thing. I think most Snatches had a fairly major refurb in 2005, the gearbox I removed had a tag on it that showed it had been refurbed then. There is a similar tag on the rear diff housing but I haven't looked up close and the radiator and eberspacher aircon also have either late 2004 or early 2005 dates. I haven't got a recon engine, but the speedo only say 69 tho km so I don't think it could have had too many miles on it at the time of the refurb. Mine is not running that great at the moment, but I know I have a couple of leaks on the exhaust which need sorting, it's only done about 350 miles since it left Iraq and the petrol that's in it has been there since November so I will be looking to put some miles on to see if that helps matters. If I can get the courage up I would like to strip and clean the carbs, but we'll see. If it doesn't improve I'll probably take it to B H Engineering in Kinloss who seem to specialise in Rover V8 and Landy stuff. However having had a fright with the gearbox I'm hoping I don't have yet more pennies to spend on the engine....... Cheers for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Out of interest to any Snatch spotters out there there was a list of possibly call-signs on the partition. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 I promised myself not to get involved with the Landy yet but I couldn't help it. I have got it running reasonably well considering the exhaust is shot by changing the plugs, leads, coil and distributor cap (two of the leads had been put on wrong to start with), setting the timing and adjusting the carbs. Enough for now. The windscreens have been getting on my nerves as they were opaque, a mention on another thread pointed me towards the inner coating. Having taken the passenger side off it's obvious that they were not well made as the laminate sealing had let in moisture and a layer had started to degrade. By taking off a perspex like layer and then an elastic and very sticky layer the windows are now clear. OK, if I get hit by a high velocity bullet glass fragments may intrude into the cab but I'll try and avoid that Before and after with the passenger side done. Prying off the "perspex" layer. The sticky elastic layer, it took some effort to peal it off. Both windows done and just need sealing back on, a major improvement and did not cost anything. I am fairly sure the anti-spall properties are not actually required any more but I am happy with the result. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 OOPS ! The EB pictures are an accident, how do you remove them?:blush: Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) After saying I was not going to get carried away, I have re-built the Landy.. It has been a chassis up rebuild and is almost complete, MOT this Monday then I have to decide if it is worth registering or just put it up for sale? I just object to paying for road tax that cannot be transferred. Anyway, a couple of pics of the process, just the Barracuda to go on and hopefully success at the MOT. I am not sure how much I should be asking either, the time spent and it's a lot, cannot be reimbursed but it in pretty good nick now. Loads of new parts used etc and comes complete with a bullet in the passenger door and bullet strike on the near side billsen screen. err, can someone help by putting the pics the right way up ? Not sure what happened... cheers Iain. Edited August 28, 2015 by Mk3iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hi Iain Price I would say people tend to under sell these by a lot. I would say over £4500 easy, I would say looking at what you've done £6500 is closer, its always better to start high and drop it down if lack of interest, but all the road worthy examples tend to sell very quickly and easily. You cant buy cheaper, more usable, easier to maintain armour. and here aren't that many Snatch's around compared to the 280ish released. I think there must be around 30-40 in private hands on the road or being rebuilt, and once there 25+years old I would guess a few will head to the States. Not sure if your on either of these groups: Snatch/WMIK Land Rover Club or The Land Rover Snatch / WMIK Owners Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/snatchlandrover/ but both are the best places for help info parts and buyers etc. Tyler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Hi Iain Price I would say people tend to under sell these by a lot. I would say over £4500 easy, I would say looking at what you've done £6500 is closer, its always better to start high and drop it down if lack of interest, but all the road worthy examples tend to sell very quickly and easily. You cant buy cheaper, more usable, easier to maintain armour. and here aren't that many Snatch's around compared to the 280ish released. I think there must be around 30-40 in private hands on the road or being rebuilt, and once there 25+years old I would guess a few will head to the States. Not sure if your on either of these groups: Snatch/WMIK Land Rover Club or The Land Rover Snatch / WMIK Owners Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/snatchlandrover/ but both are the best places for help info parts and buyers etc. Tyler Thanks Tyler ! I had thought around £6500, more would be better of course but its only worth what someone will pay... Just one or two items to finish it off as I would like; Air ducting/hose to replace the worn two piece hose from the snorkel to the filter. Rear seat cushions. My main problem just now is trying to get temp insurance on a vin number for the MOT, so far I keep getting refusals. :mad: happy days cheers Iain Edited August 29, 2015 by Mk3iain Details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 It failed its MOT ! :-( The headlights are LHD and the windscreen washer tube fell off..... All in all, not too bad at all, should have spotted the headlights though. :red: Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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