Saracen not charging

[haybaggerman]

The Saracen is going really well at the moment, even managed a prom last night, however, the generator isn't charging. When the revs are around 2,500 the charging light dims but doesn't go out, so I'm running on battery power the whole time.

 

Are there any common faults with these, has the chewing gum come unstuck under the generator panel perhaps? or maybe, just a guess here, but does the engine need to come out to get at the generator? In which case I'll just carry some extra batteries around for now.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[fv1609]

Paul. What sort of generator system do you have?

 

Original with Dynamo: Generator No.2 & Gen Panel No.2

or

Rover type Alternator: Generator No.10 & Gen Panel No.9

[Toolman]

Clive is the man for this :-)

 

My ferret stopped charging after I got it, same symptoms as your saracen. A (2nd hand, humber truck) replacement gen panel fixed it.

 

MT

[haybaggerman]

Paul. What sort of generator system do you have?

 

Original with Dynamo: Generator No.2 & Gen Panel No.2

or

Rover type Alternator: Generator No.10 & Gen Panel No.9

 

Hi Clive

 

According to the plate on the side of the generator its a no2 mk 2.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[fv1609]

Paul, ok thats the original 25-amp dynamo set up.

 

The light stays on, but is it charging at all?

 

Check the large metal cap on top of the gen panel. It should be fully screwed down otherwise it will only charge at 5 amps during wading. Underneath that cap should be a smaller cap, this is loose & must be stored there in order to press down on the central rubber protrusion that operates 2 micro switches. These must be pressed down to develop 25-amp charge option.

 

(Sorry if you already know this. But the two caps screw onto the air intake & output on the dynamo when wading. Obviously no air cooling it will get hot, hence the limitation to 5-amp charge maximum.)

[haybaggerman]

Hi Clive

 

I didn't know that! I have checked it and found that both caps are present and the outer one was on tightly.

 

Shame really, that would have been a nice little fix.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[fv1609]

Paul, its a quite cunning system!

 

Ok next stage undo the screws that hold the top cap assembly to the main body. In there you will see the 2 microswitches & 2 fuses. There is a 5A wire wound fuse that you can easily rewire. But I suspect your problem may be the main 25A fuse which is the main output fuse.

 

It is a thin metal strip held at each by chunky screws with a screwdriver slot & knurled sides. If the fuse has blown then there should be some spare ones screwed into the lid. They think of everything!

 

Once I had one of the screws for the spare fuses fall down & blow the main fuse as it shorted it to the case. The trouble was that this screw then shorted the live terminal to the case & partially melted the screw & terminal. I hope you have better luck!

[andyroo]

I dont know what it is with this charging set up, but I'm on my 4th or maybe 5th pannel and 2nd or 3rd generator in my Saracen. The carbon pile regulators have gone in all the pannels that have gone wrong. Any idea as to why?

[fv1609]

I dont know what it is with this charging set up, but I'm on my 4th or maybe 5th pannel and 2nd or 3rd generator in my Saracen. The carbon pile regulators have gone in all the pannels that have gone wrong. Any idea as to why?

 

Androo the carbon discs in the pile are quite brittle & are under considerable tension from the force of the solenoid altering their resistivity & in turn regulating the field winding which controls output. So once a stress line develops a spreading crack is inevitable sooner or later. One doesn't know whether they have previously been dropped & ageing takes its toll when it is put to work.

 

The regulator has to be mounted in the prescribed axis, but I think cooling is an important factor. In the Pig the gen panel is in the cab just forward of the gear stick. Because of the extra armour in a Mk 2 it was moved into the engine bay, which struck me as not an ideal place to be kept cool.

 

Where is it mounted in the Saracen? Perhaps the position is not conducive to effective cooling. Coupled with that maybe it has more work to do as perhaps the electrical demands of a Saracen are greater than a Pig? Hence the move to upgrade to the Rover 90A system?

 

On the two Pigs I 've had I think I have got through 4 generators. Seemed to be brush problems mainly.

[haybaggerman]

Paul, its a quite cunning system!

 

Ok next stage undo the screws that hold the top cap assembly to the main body. In there you will see the 2 microswitches & 2 fuses. There is a 5A wire wound fuse that you can easily rewire. But I suspect your problem may be the main 25A fuse which is the main output fuse.

 

It is a thin metal strip held at each by chunky screws with a screwdriver slot & knurled sides. If the fuse has blown then there should be some spare ones screwed into the lid. They think of everything!

 

Once I had one of the screws for the spare fuses fall down & blow the main fuse as it shorted it to the case. The trouble was that this screw then shorted the live terminal to the case & partially melted the screw & terminal. I hope you have better luck!

 

Hi Clive

 

The fuses are okay. I have also manually operated the micro switches and the light does dim when operated, likewise when I tighten the cap on the outside.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[FoolsHumor]

I dont know what it is with this charging set up, but I'm on my 4th or maybe 5th pannel and 2nd or 3rd generator in my Saracen. The carbon pile regulators have gone in all the panels that have gone wrong. Any idea as to why?

On the two Pigs I 've had I think I have got through 4 generators. Seemed to be brush problems mainly.

 

Gentlemen,

 

With the history of problems you have had I am not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about my very thin supply of spare on hand here. Are the carbon pile regulators available separately or only from buying a complete panel?

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Bob

[fv1609]

Bob, as I said my main problems have been brushes on the dynamo. I've only had two regulator problems when one would deliver nearly 30 volts & another that was sealed & came out of a box that would give no output at all. The best regulation came from one that was found in the mud on the floor of a scrapyard. Didn't look too pretty but performed just fine.

 

I've never seen the carbon piles for sale as individual units.

[FoolsHumor]

Clive,<br><br>As always, the information is appreciated.  I have spent a good portion of my days trying to keep old tired equipment running by adapting, modifying, rebuilding as needed.  When I read on the forum where someone has swapped out an entire unit I never really know if it the only option due to an absence of individual parts or because whole assemblies are so plentiful and reasonably priced.  Any large heavy item is never low cost once it is shipped here.  It fretts me a bit to think of a vehicle sitting idle for lack of a brush or carbon disc, or just my own lack of understanding about how to make it well again.<br><br>Thanks Again for the shared knowledge.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Bob

[FoolsHumor]

And apparently I am not capable of doing a simple reply correctly??????????

[haybaggerman]

And apparently I am not capable of doing a simple reply correctly??????????

 

I thought that was code between you and Clive

 

Is there anything else I should look at Clive or will it be a job I'll save up for when the engine is out next?

 

Thanks for all your help by the way

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[fv1609]

Paul, I've lost the thread of where you are. So no charging still? That is based on charge light staying on or have you put a voltmeter on the batteries & observed readings at tick over & when you rev hard?

[andyroo]

Androo the carbon discs in the pile are quite brittle & are under considerable tension from the force of the solenoid altering their resistivity & in turn regulating the field winding which controls output. So once a stress line develops a spreading crack is inevitable sooner or later. One doesn't know whether they have previously been dropped & ageing takes its toll when it is put to work.

 

Clive,

 

That explans why my pannel was working when I removed it and dose not work now. Its not easy to remove and put back. You need four hands but only two will fit arround the battery box. I used my foot to take the waight, but after a minute it starts to get heavy - then you drop the pannel

Bet thats damaged the carbon discs.

According to Richard who dose my electrical testing, there are nasty chemicals in the pannel somwhere so be wary when taking to bits.

[fv1609]

there are nasty chemicals in the pannel somwhere so be wary when taking to bits.

 

Wonder what bits those are? Some transistors contain the carcinogen Beryllium oxide, but we don't have any of those with this.

 

The repair EMER tells you not to handle carbon discs. I think that is just a greasy finger contamination issue, as later on it tells you to blow away any carbon dust when you examine them.

 

If it has had a lot of use, it might be worthwhile removing the piles & cleaning them carefully as the are rubbed with the varying pressure from the solenoid they abrade & produce dust. There are 53 discs in the voltage regulator & 76 in the current regulator.

 

Might be worth checking that you have the later Gen Panel No.2 Mk 2/1 rather than the No.2 Mk 1. There were a number of improvements. Also worth checking it is painted matt black rather than gloss black, otherwise overheating may be an issue.

[Toolman]

Might be worth checking that you have the later Gen Panel No.2 Mk 2/1 rather than the No.2 Mk 1. There were a number of improvements. Also worth checking it is painted matt black rather than gloss black, otherwise overheating may be an issue.

 

really, thats interesting. The one that stopped working in the ferret was painted glass black, does it really make a difference to cooling.

 

LR Condenser arrived (less than 24 hours for delivery), still awaiting the points. Hopefully will be fitting tomorrow (If points come).

[fv1609]

The change from gloss to matt was quoted in the EMER Technical Description as an improvement in heating efficiency when describing the improvement of the No.2 Mk 2/1 over the No.2 Mk 1

 

So you may have a Mk 2/1 & someone thought it looked smarter in gloss, in which case paint it matt again.

 

Or you may have a Mk 1, in which case it might be worth an upgrade to Mk 2/1 & get other improvements

 

Or if you don't upgrade paint it matt anyway.