R Cubed Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Historic category has only ever applied to vehicles registered 1973 or before which made them 25 years old or older at the time it was introduced . It has been suggested on a number of occasions that this should be changed so that vehicles qualify once they become 25 years old but after some initial consideration by the powers that be has subsequently been rejected every time the subject is raised . For a few years it did roll so the 25 year moved forward each year but at 1973 they stopped it !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike65 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 For a few years it did roll so the 25 year moved forward each year but at 1973 they stopped it !!! Thats right it was originally started pn a rolling basis so that when a vehicle became 25 years old it became free road tax. IIRC this stopped in 1998 makiny anything built prior to Jan 1 1973 the cut off date. There was a reason but that is a forbidden subject. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Personally I wouldn't thought it beyond the 'wit of man' for the DVLA themselves to interrogate their own database for vehicles that are historic by virtue of their date of registration and update it themselves! Not all vehicles pre-'73 will qualify as to be taxed as Historic vehicle, so a search based simply on this criterion would not work. Besides, why should they bother? If it isn't historic, there will be tax revenue earned from it and the owner will be paying this tax - if that isn't motivation for the owner to instigate the reclassification, then I don't know what is. DVLA/the government is unlikely to expend time and energy to reduce their own tax income when they don't actually have any obligation to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Not all vehicles pre-'73 will qualify as to be taxed as Historic vehicle, so a search based simply on this criterion would not work. Besides, why should they bother? If it isn't historic, there will be tax revenue earned from it and the owner will be paying this tax - if that isn't motivation for the owner to instigate the reclassification, then I don't know what is. DVLA/the government is unlikely to expend time and energy to reduce their own tax income when they don't actually have any obligation to do so. I'm not so sure I agree. Surely it is the obligation of the DVLA to ensure that their database is accurate as possible?. Particularly where changes needed are as a result of legislation. I'm also not so sure the cost of updating the database each time they recieve an enquiry is any less than to do one simple search of their entire database based on registration date and rectify any anomalies. In fact I suspect the latter would be a far cheaper excercise on a long term basis. P.S which pre 1973 vehicles are not exempt from duty out of interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob8066 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 One of the reasons why there was a stop put on the 'Historic' classification of VED was due to the rise in sales of 25 year old plus vehicles and the number being used to flout the congestion zone in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 One of the reasons why there was a stop put on the 'Historic' classification of VED was due to the rise in sales of 25 year old plus vehicles and the number being used to flout the congestion zone in London. Not sure about that one, the taxation class was originally a rolling "25 year exempt" it was replaced with the non rolling "Historic" in 1998, by a chancellor who gave nothing away but the gold reserves. I don't believe the congestion charge had been thought of at the time of the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I'm not so sure I agree. Surely it is the obligation of the DVLA to ensure that their database is accurate as possible?. Particularly where changes needed are as a result of legislation. What is it about their DB that you feel is "inaccurate" now? There is no requirement for a pre-1973 vehicle to be classed as an Historic Vehicle, it is merely a concession. If I chose to tax my 1954 Series 1 Land-Rover as PLG I am not doing anything wrong, just something mildly stupid. If I used it for business purposes however I would have to tax it as PLG, since taxing it as Historic would constitute tax evasion and be an offence. The default class is PLG (or the appropriate non-concessionary class) unless the owner requests the change to Historic and declares that the vehicle is legitimately eligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 P.S which pre 1973 vehicles are not exempt from duty out of interest? Sorry, I missed the last question in your post. Anything which is used commercially is not eligible, together with (I think) some other classes of vehcile. If you visit the DVLA website you will find a list of the classes which are eligible. I know that 'mobile cranes' and 'engineering plant', which are normally taxed in the Special Vehicles class, are eligible provided that they are not used commercially, since the last vehicle I had reclassified was one of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Pre- 1973 vehicles not eligible , an example would be one badly restored and out of compliance with the DVLA points systm. For example a Land Rover originally built with leaf springs but re-built on a new chassis for coil springs. There again some are in compliance if re-built on a Pre-1973 Range Rover chassis or a new chassis if re-built prior to the DVLA Historic Vehicle Points Systm.. This would all take a bit of investigation in the field , perusal of documentary evidence and could not be done fully from a computer data base .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Sorry, I missed the last question in your post. Anything which is used commercially is not eligible, together with (I think) some other classes of vehcile. If you visit the DVLA website you will find a list of the classes which are eligible. I know that 'mobile cranes' and 'engineering plant', which are normally taxed in the Special Vehicles class, are eligible provided that they are not used commercially, since the last vehicle I had reclassified was one of these. I was advised by DVLA that I could tax a Special Vehicles class (or Special Types) vehicle as Historic and use for its intended commercial purpose (i.e. engineering plant not carrying a load) - I didn't expect this response but didn't argue :-D Perhaps I should have? If the advice given was correct, could it be that load carrying, and hence MOT testing, is the main criteria which kicks out any entitlement to concession? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 These are the only vehicles qualifying for historic tax – Just because a vehicle is manufactured before 1973 doesn’t automatically qualify it for historic tax. Private or light goods vehicles – this includes buses used for voluntary, community or other non-profit-making purposes. Motorcycles and tricycles. Private heavy goods vehicle (HGV) – this does not include vehicles designed for, or adapted for, transporting goods on a public road for business purposes, including HGVs used for driver training or testing purposes. Special vehicles – this includes mobile cranes and pumps, road rollers, works trucks and digging machines (except showmen’s goods and haulage vehicles). Haulage vehicles – not used for haulage purposes. Special concessionary – including agricultural machines, mowing machines, snowploughs, gritting vehicles, electric vehicles and steam vehicles. Link to INF34: http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065254.pdf One of the reasons the 25 year exemption first came in was to help owners pay for the conversion to unleaded fuel after pressure from motoring groups. Don’t think Joe public has as much pull with the government now. Let’s face it, this current government was voted in by the people that came last, hardly democracy. 1988 was a bad year for me, my Aston was manufactured in January 1973 – missed it by a month:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I was advised by DVLA that I could tax a Special Vehicles class (or Special Types) vehicle as Historic and use for its intended commercial purpose (i.e. engineering plant not carrying a load) - I didn't expect this response but didn't argue :-D Perhaps I should have? If the advice given was correct, could it be that load carrying, and hence MOT testing, is the main criteria which kicks out any entitlement to concession? This is an interesting question and i am not sure that anyone has a definitive answer. I believe that to be eligible for HV tax status the vehicle must not make journeys on the public highway in connection with any trade or business, so engineering plant which is used for commercial purposes at a single (off-highway) location only, but which is being driven to a rally (for example) may legally be eligible. If, however, it is travelling from one location to another to carry out a commercial operation, or is carrying out a commercial operation on the public highway, then it is probably not. Load carrying is definitely not the issue, since it is entirely legal to use a vehicle in the HV tax class to carry a load provided the load is not being carried in connection with a trade or business (yours or anyone else's). So your HV-taxed Diamond T can tow your Sherman on the road entirely legally (provided that it complies with any testing/insurance/driver licensing/hours requirements etc) provided your are doing it in a private capacity, not for reward, and not in connection with anyone's business including your own. Another question which I have never seen answered: if a show is being organised by a commercial concern (some county shows etc are), and you are attending with an historic vehicle, then your journey could be construed as being in connection with the organisers' business and hence a commercial journey, which would potentially impact your eligibility for HV tax status and your insurance. I like to think that it wouldn't be considered thus, but it seems to be yet another rather grey area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim gray Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I take it that it is safe to assume DVLA VS GREY = DVLA -v- tim grey ?? Hi thier, sorry for the delay in replying, but yes i used my name as an example only, i dont have a problem at the minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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