question Is this a wartime picture?

[rippo]

Hello,

Here's an intresting picture can anyone help date it? Is that a hilman or a commer van in the line up. I recognise the crossley but what are the rest?

 

 

 

The company i work for were involved aircarft production during the war and this is there fleet of vehicles at that time. It looks like the commer painted up in the company livery is the latest arrival so may help date it. It seems odd the company vehicle line up would include two RAF vehicles. At first we thought it was a post war picture and the vehicles had been bought at disposals, but on closer inspection the RAF markings were noticed.

 

 

Here;s a link to the companys website http://www.smceuroclamp.com/our-profile.asp.

 

Thanks.

[Richard Farrant]

Hello,

Here's an intresting picture can anyone help date it? Is that a hilman or a commer van in the line up. I recognise the crossley but what are the rest?

 

The company i work for were involved aircarft production during the war and this is there fleet of vehicles at that time. It looks like the commer painted up in the company livery is the latest arrival so may help date it. It seems odd the company vehicle line up would include two RAF vehicles. At first we thought it was a post war picture and the vehicles had been bought at disposals, but on closer inspection the RAF markings were noticed.

 

 

 

 

Hi John,

 

Nice photo. On enlarging it I notice the Commer/ Hillman van has as well as RAF number, the letters MAP which are Ministry of Aircraft Production, these letters also on the Crossley tractor unit. Seeing as your employer was involved in manufacture of wing and fuselage assemblies, the Crossley was probably towing a Queen Mary and there to transport parts to the aircraft factories. Could well have been based with the company as work would have been regular. The van might have been the Ministry Inspector, who again was attached to factories, in order to check parts before acceptance, then give them the inspectors stamp.

 

If the Commer lorry was new, as it has blackout lights, it would appear that it was still wartime.

 

regards, Richard

[Richard Farrant]

I have overlooked the fact that the lorries at the far end do not have blackout lights nor does the Crossley, so perhaps it is at the end of the war, also think the Crossley could be in gloss finish. There is a winged crest over the windscreen and same on the lorry next to it, was that the company logo or perhaps that of MAP ?

[ted angus]

WOW what a great shot my Dad was a Commer man from 1940 until he retired in the early 1980s plus RAF vehicles being amongst my pet subjects. Thanks for sharing.

I can offer : MAP was unique as it was a Ministry in a Ministry; It was an offshoot of the Air Ministry. The badge is a mystery, is it the MAP badge and the 2 civvy left hand trucks are impressed ?? or is it something the company have applied. The Crossley has TYPE 1000 on the door type 1000 is indeed an artic tractor used with QM trailers. I would also think the Van which is a Hillman is the personal mount of the local AID Aeronautical Inspection Dept Inspector. Every picture of an RAF vehicle allocated to MAP has the MAP stencilled on it, However this was never authorised and it should have simply been the letter Z; But on all the MAP vehicles I have seen Z has never appeared.

In addition to all the recognised aircraft factories MAP ran the contracts and oversaw the production in thousands of companies directed to war production. In addition it ran virtually all the storage unitsaerodromes in Maintenance Command 43 Group.. I will dig into the badge. I would suggest the Crossley has had a wipe down with a parrafin rag but compared to the Commers its Matt. If you ever see the same Hillman with or without windows carrying a ladder that would be an aerodrome lighting team's vehicle.

TED

Edited September 19, 2010 by ted angus

[MACCDT]

I have overlooked the fact that the lorries at the far end do not have blackout lights nor does the Crossley, so perhaps it is at the end of the war, also think the Crossley could be in gloss finish. There is a winged crest over the windscreen and same on the lorry next to it, was that the company logo or perhaps that of MAP ?

 

Hello Richard, the crest you have seen was the company logo at the time as the factory was contracted to manufacture aircraft sections for the Anson, Lancaster etc.

the factory was sited approx 5 miles from the Avro works at Woodford, Cheshire.

Steve

[Richard Farrant]

Hello Richard, the crest you have seen was the company logo at the time as the factory was contracted to manufacture aircraft sections for the Anson, Lancaster etc.

the factory was sited approx 5 miles from the Avro works at Woodford, Cheshire.

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

 

So it looks like the Crossley was on detachment to the company to transport the sections, as it still had RAF serial number on it. Thanks for the information.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Richard Farrant

[No Signals]

Re timing, possible factor might be when did the phasing out of blackout regs and enforcement take place? It is a bit like the question of the 'white lining' on vehicle edging. When did such practise stop? So it may be that it is still wartime but with the much reduced risk of bombing that blackout lights have been dropped, even unofficially?

[ted angus]

The RAF Crossley and the company Commer both have their headlights masked; the uncovered light on both are a fog light. The RAF Hillman configuration of one masked was not uncommon. I had access to some old ARP/CD journals and they revealed the blackout relaxation started soon after D Day it was done regionally. Cheshire would have been one of the first areas to be relaxed; It is possible that if the two left hand civvy vejicles were only on local running they may never have had blackout masks ??

 

TED

[les freathy]

The last two trucks appear to be a Morris Commercial and a Vulcan