WW1 Recovery vehicles

[nz2]

During WW1 what was used by the engineers to recover bogged and damaged vehicles?

Traction engines had winches but there ability to operate in softer ground would prevent too much activity as a recovery mode. A few crawler tractors but only a few latter on.

Did any trucks become set up for recovery using winches and transporting such vehicles to a repair base?

Photos about of trucks for all sorts of other uses in the supply line but I do not recall seeing any recovery vehicle photos.

Were hand operated winches used, not being vehicle mounted?

Doug

[N.O.S.]

Doug - you need to get hold of a book -

 

'BREAKDOWN A History of Recovery Vehicles in the British Army' by Brian S Baxter,

published by HMSO ISBN 0-11-290456-4

 

A good section on WW1. Recovery units set up in 1916, using just about everything from converted heavy staff cars through Peerless lorries with dummy axles and jib, to tanks with crane jibs. Even a couple of tanks with power slewing cranes. But no front line winching vehicles. A good pic of two tanks with wire ropes uprighting an upside-down tank.

 

Interestingly the tank recovery units were set up initially to recover 6" guns from abandoned tanks which were in very short supply - they found many other parts were salvageable and many tanks could be repaired in the field and recovered that way.

Edited May 22, 2010 by N.O.S.

[Tony B]

See also The British Tank, a photograpgic history 1916-1986 by Lt Col. (Retd) Geroge Forty.

The best recovery systems in the Great War for British tanks, was had by the Germans!

[N.O.S.]

But basically, in the heavily cratered front lines - if a tank couldn't be towed out by another tank, or dug out by men with shovels and driven/towed out (favourite was a de-bogging beam, a timber baulk chained across both tracks!! - don't say anything, farmer Degsy....), then it was cannibalised for spares and abandoned where it sat.

 

German hand grenades were utilised for straightening tracks and cutting steel plate due to lack of oxy cutting equipment!!!!! Those guys were resourceful.

[nz2]

Thanks for the book titles. Availability now could be an issue here. I will try the local library for an interloan issue. Hopefully there is a copy in the country (NZ).

I was aware of the tank recovery process or otherwise abandonment, however that was again latter in the war. The point I was questioning revolved more as to recovering trucks and other such vehicles. Many photos published show trucks suck in the mud, or in a damaged condition, about the war zone.

Our predecessors were a resourceful group and with limited equipment and plenty of time, could move a mountain.

From experience solid rubber tyres, on wet or muddy conditions are not good for traction. To try towing out another vehicle would be and interesting exercise with the probability of them both becoming located off the firm ground.

Question still is; Where are all the photos of the WW1 recovery units? I find nothing on this forum, or is it something that has been missed to date?

Doug

[Roy Larkin]

From experience solid rubber tyres, on wet or muddy conditions are not good for traction. To try towing out another vehicle would be and interesting exercise with the probability of them both becoming located off the firm ground.

Question still is; Where are all the photos of the WW1 recovery units? I find nothing on this forum, or is it something that has been missed to date?

Doug

 

I agree that traction with solid tyres on wet ground is a problem, one only has to think back on wet rally fields to see how easily lorries get bogged down or simply spin wheels on wet grass, whether solid tyres or pneumatics. However, there are numerous photos of columns on roads that are rivers of deep mud, or solid ice and snow, so somehow they managed. Non-skids or ropes wrapped around the tyres certainly helped and were compulsory equipment, but they only seem to have been used in extreme conditions.

 

The idea of 'recovery units' is a bit of a misnomer. Recovery was generally by other lorries in the column, simply by a rope pull. Only if the casualty couldn't be towed back to base was the mobile workshop attached to each company called in to affect recovery. This was usually with cranes built into workshop lorries, or a spare lorry if available and built by each mobile workshop. There are photos of specialist breakdown/recovery/first aid lorries, but they are few and far between. Some of the larger companies had more dedicated recovery lorries, but that was usually with companies that had been merged into others, giving them a larger mobile workshop and therefore more vehicles, allowing at least one to be dedicated to recovery. 93 Coy is one company quoted as having a recovery team, but 93 Coy was part of the Auxiliary Omnibus Park which initially included 90, 91, 92 & 93 Coys, grew to absorb lorries from various Ammunition Parks and amounted to over 600 vehicles, so it was responsible for sufficient lorries to warrant, probably need, a full time recovery facility. The combined mobile workshops of the merged companies gave sufficient vehicles for one or two to be dedicated to recovery work. Most companies arranged their own recovery as and when needed with whatever equipment they could fashion at the time.

 

The British Red Cross Society combined with the RAC to design a workshop lorry, usually based on Commer-Car chassis and this included a recovery crane for the recovery of their ambulances.

[Stormin]

 

'BREAKDOWN A History of Recovery Vehicles in the British Army' by Brian S Baxter,

published by HMSO ISBN 0-11-290456-4

 

 

 

Available on Amazon for a price!

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breakdown-History-Recovery-Vehicles-British/dp/0112904564/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274514721&sr=8-3

[Tony B]

The RE were very quick to see the value of jibs on tank chassis. As the Mk III ansd Mk IV became obsolete they were either used as training vehicles or converted to stores and RE vehicles. The Germans had a whole supply line to transport and refurbish British Tanks at Charelroi.

[Degsy]

But basically, in the heavily cratered front lines - if a tank couldn't be towed out by another tank, or dug out by men with shovels and driven/towed out (favourite was a de-bogging beam, a timber baulk chained across both tracks!! - don't say anything, farmer Degsy....), then it was cannibalised for spares and abandoned where it sat.

 

German hand grenades were utilised for straightening tracks and cutting steel plate due to lack of oxy cutting equipment!!!!! Those guys were resourceful.

 

 

Oooooooh..........:-X

[steveo578]

In the interwar period there was still consideration given to use surplus MkVs as recovery vehicles for the Vickers Mk1 and 2s. Whether the MkVs themselves would be in good enough condition or the engines at 150bhp would have been capable of recovery or whether it was planned to use some form of winch I don't know, but I would think that even considering the weight difference the relatively smooth tracks of the MkV would make recovery difficult.

[les freathy]

Try the REME museum to see if they still have some stock left on the Breakdown book, Brian still works there part time and will i am sure chase it up for you

[N.O.S.]

Published by HMSO 1989, mine was from a 1990 print run. It was £11.25 new. I'd have thought it would still be a good seller in museum shops.

 

S/h prices seem to range from £25 to £56 (!) Well worth getting a copy if you can.

 

Presumably the photos were from Army archives. I wonder if these and other photos are available for viewing, and can copies be obtained?

Edited May 23, 2010 by N.O.S.

[Great War truck]

I have seen some of the photos used by Baxter at the IWM collection. Probably my favourite was of a Peerless with a very substantial wooden jib in the back. It seems that photos of the recovery trucks are very rare so i would suggest that not many were used. If you look at the movie clip of WW1 trucks in Images of a forgotten war you will see that most of the British trucks that are recovered are done so by having soldiers push them out. The US Liberty trucks had substantial wooden bumpers front and back and it seems that these were regularly used to push out stuck trucks.

 

Tim

[nz2]

Thanks Roy for the informative comment, and also to others for the input.

Again this forum shows the wide extent of information held by members on otherwise remote subject areas.

Are there any WW1 type trucks remaining with a jib? May be in civilian colours.

Doug

[Great War truck]

I cant think of any survivors. Restoring one as a wrecker would be good though. handy as well.